In the long-term it's a very effective development model to only support the "current release". Having to support legacy releases on new operating systems is time consuming and does not further the product. With limited staff, I think the currently model makes a lot of sense.
 
From my end-user perspective, Cakewalk seems to deliver a nice mix of fixes and features monthly. I'm actually impressed and very happy with Sonar and where they are taking it.

Anderton

trtzbass
I truly am in two minds regarding the topic and I'm trying to form an opinion.

 
Well there are always features and bug fixes happening in parallel, so there's no real reason not to release the "simple" stuff when it's ready (and at least something's always ready during any given month).
 

I see what you're saying, but that's where my question comes from; and again I admit it all boils down to my personal preference. As the kind of user I am I would prefer to see workflow enhancements over anything else.
From what you are saying the team works at two speeds, the quick one to release the 'simple' stuff and a more paced one that works on the 'big' stuff. I like the latter better, and I'd much prefer if all the efforts were directed to the 'big' team; In your terms my questions would be: do the developers feel compelled to have to keep outputting 'simple' because of user base pressure?
Ripple edit was a great, great feature that immensely enhanced my workflow. Could I have had received it a month earlier if they (possibly) didn't have to fulfill the monthly update pledge?
 
Having said all that, it's their company and they have a road map and fair enough.
All we can do is discuss for the pleasure of it!
 

AllanH
In the long-term it's a very effective development model to only support the "current release". Having to support legacy releases on new operating systems is time consuming and does not further the product. With limited staff, I think the currently model makes a lot of sense.
 
From my end-user perspective, Cakewalk seems to deliver a nice mix of fixes and features monthly. I'm actually impressed and very happy with Sonar and where they are taking it.

that's good stuff then and it's great that's working for you.
And I think we are saying the same thing: if you keep the legacy code, the software does not evolve

trtzbass
Ripple edit was a great, great feature that immensely enhanced my workflow. Could I have had received it a month earlier if they (possibly) didn't have to fulfill the monthly update pledge?

If Cakewalk prioritized something as being the only update worth doing, it would likely happen faster. But not everyone uses SONAR the same way. Probably some people would have preferred that Ripple Editing be put on hold so they could get an improved PRV if they work a lot with MIDI, or comping with Melodyne clips if they work a lot with vocals, happening earlier. It's all a balancing act between resources, user expectations, bug fixes, and new features. The balance will never be perfect for everyone, but the only way that can change is if SONAR acquires more new users to increase the resources part of the balance.
 

Anderton

trtzbass
Ripple edit was a great, great feature that immensely enhanced my workflow. Could I have had received it a month earlier if they (possibly) didn't have to fulfill the monthly update pledge?

If Cakewalk prioritized something as being the only update worth doing, it would likely happen faster. But not everyone uses SONAR the same way. Probably some people would have preferred that Ripple Editing be put on hold so they could get an improved PRV if they work a lot with MIDI, or comping with Melodyne clips if they work a lot with vocals, happening earlier. It's all a balancing act between resources, user expectations, bug fixes, and new features. The balance will never be perfect for everyone, but the only way that can change is if SONAR acquires more new users to increase the resources part of the balance.
 

I cannot possibly fault anything you said.
 
All I can humbly put on the plate then is my list of what I personally think would make Sonar palatable to a new generation of users, which is in my original post.
I might add an upgrade of the matrix page to match the workflow of Live / Bitwig. My experience on the field with the up and coming songwriters is that a big (worrying?) number of them accepts that paradigm as their main workflow.
It makes less sense to me because I'm old and see an arrangement in a linear fashion.
If I had to develop a new DAW now, my money would be on that kind of workflow, even tho I have almost no use for it!

trtzbass
All I can humbly put on the plate then is my list of what I personally think would make Sonar palatable to a new generation of users, which is in my original post.
I might add an upgrade of the matrix page to match the workflow of Live / Bitwig. My experience on the field with the up and coming songwriters is that a big (worrying?) number of them accepts that paradigm as their main workflow.
It makes less sense to me because I'm old and see an arrangement in a linear fashion.

 
I agree 100%, and have submitted several suggestions to Cakewalk on this very subject. To quantify, I think a lot of the newer paradigms are oriented toward composers, while programs like SONAR, Pro Tools, etc. have their roots with players. IMHO no program has successfully wedded the two methods of working seamlessly - I'd love to see SONAR become that program!
 

Anderton

trtzbass
All I can humbly put on the plate then is my list of what I personally think would make Sonar palatable to a new generation of users, which is in my original post.
I might add an upgrade of the matrix page to match the workflow of Live / Bitwig. My experience on the field with the up and coming songwriters is that a big (worrying?) number of them accepts that paradigm as their main workflow.
It makes less sense to me because I'm old and see an arrangement in a linear fashion.

 
I agree 100%, and have submitted several suggestions to Cakewalk on this very subject. To quantify, I think a lot of the newer paradigms are oriented toward composers, while programs like SONAR, Pro Tools, etc. have their roots with players. IMHO no program has successfully wedded the two methods of working seamlessly - I'd love to see SONAR become that program!
 

That sounds like a great plan!
Real pleasure talking to you

trtzbass
And I think we are saying the same thing: if you keep the legacy code, the software does not evolve

Although there are definite advantages to a "build-things-from-the-ground up" approach, software like SONAR is modular. Something like ARA integration can work with existing code (I'm frankly surprised that more DAWs haven't done it). Also I think the speed improvements that you've been seeing lately come from replacing sections of old code. Fundamental changes do take a while, though...Ripple Editing is a case in point. I suspect the more radical a change (e.g., scalable graphics), the more time it would take.
 
But really, I know nothing about code other than at one point, I was able to bounce pixels around on a Commodore-64's screen . So I get to make requests while being blissfully ignorant of the consequences. When I wrote the manual for Ableton Live 2 I asked to make the Solo button be recordable as part of a performance. I figured that would be easy. Instead, I was told it was just about impossible because it was always intended to be a diagnostic tool in the studio, not a live performance feature. 
 
When I've asked Noel about the feasibility of certain features, sometimes something I assume is super-complex he does in a day, but then he tells me something I assume is simple would take months of development. I'm glad my responsibility is restricted to using (and occasionally abusing) software .

Make it lean and Stable.
For me those are the two biggest priority.
Sonar has greatly improved and mature over the years. As far as upgrades monthly, I am a traditionalist, I don't need all the features. But others might.

I don't know didily poo but with the "late" early release and the hush hush that led up to it that fueled speculation that we're really gonna get a good lookin pony this month then, thud, makes me think that whatever they were really cookin up (an arrangement window perhaps?) didn't prove to be ready so maybe next month.
 
When they announced monthly updates I thought " that's nuts", but I like it and, I knew that I would.
 
The reason I said arrangement window is that is the top of the pops in terms of popularity and votes over
in the Bakery.