The Band19
They asked for input/advice? 
 
I have advice?
Ask less? "Listen more..."
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Posts/78203?forumid=27
 
If you click the link, you'll see?

Actually, I don't see.  I am new to this forum.  I participate in the X2 threads if I think I have something relevant to contribute.  A poster over there suggested I post an example here and that is what I did.  I don't get your point.  I certainly have appreciated the advice that others have offered.
 
If you are saying that I haven't commented on others' mixes, that is true.  I don't feel my expertise is developed enough to offer useful suggestions yet. That is, after all, why I came here to ask for some help.  I think I know my limitations.
 
If you would prefer every yahoo just make random comments on each thread, I guess I can give that a try, but that just doesn't seem like a very good idea to me.
 

Guitarhacker
Starting with the drums and bass comes from the old band sound check days.... drums were always first, then we added the other stuff, and could turn the drums down as needed... if that was needed. Same thing I do in the studio.... I want to hear the drums as part of the mix and not an afterthought. I did not hear the drums very well even in the last post #14... but the style of music probably doesn't lend well to prominent drums...

I appreciate that.  And this song starts with a lame drum track, so I'm kind of screwed.  :)  I'll definitely take your approach on the next project.  I'm going to freeze this one now because there are 100 more of these vocalises to produce.  This one is far from perfection, but it is much better because of all the input.  And I know the next one will be a lot better by paying more attention to the fundamentals people have mentioned.
 
For the record, here is the final version of this one. 
http://bordogni.info/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/V17-T-Sonar-Ver5.mp3
 
The main changes here were that I narrowed the stereo field and tracked the trombone closer to the band.
 
Thank you all for the help.  It really is appreciated.
 

If you say so ... To me, it sounds completely wrong.

ULTRABRA
If you say so ... To me, it sounds completely wrong.

Do yiou play a wind instrument?  To perform at a high level on a wind instrument, one must really master the radical changes in breath control and embouchure support to play beautifully at different sound volumes.  It is a lot more than turning a knob.  Every instrument has its challenges.  This is among the biggest challenge for most wind instruments.  So these vocalise exercises exaggerate the dynamic range to extremes.  I understand that it "sounds completely wrong" but these are the levels needed for the exercise to be effective practice.
 
I think with a lot of work I could go into the accompaniment tracks and change what they are playing as they lead into the ppp sections.  That might make it sound more natural, but hitting the vibes with a hard mallet at ppp is really a disconnect.  It would probably be better to drop out some of the voices in the softer sections -- drop the guitar and vibes and just go with bass and strings, for example.  I may try something like that on the next project.
 
Thanks for the feedback.

Yes, I play the trumpet and the oboe.  This isn't about the natural dynamics of a wind instrument.  Its about the volume of the entire track fluctuating up and down as if someone is turning the volume knob.  It sounds wrong to take the levels of everything suddenly down because the trombone is playing quieter.  A change in arrangement at that point (like a "drop") could work.  

You're right, listen less? Ask more, I agree, and 90% of posters agree with you as well?  Regardless of if you can provide good input on the mix or not? Listening takes time! And taking time SUCKS! My time is worth much more than most... I'm going to join you!
 
I'm starting by not listening to this? (I can't give good advice, and my time is so important?) Thanks so much for your advice :-) You rock HARD! (So I've heard? But I haven't actually listened...)

You're getting closer.  The volume fluctuations are glaring - the different dynamics marked in the music should be handled entirely differently.  Sounds like you are adding volume envelopes all over the place - this sounds completely unnatural.  You should start by deleting all the volume envelopes.  To achieve dynamic changes you can do a couple things:  
1) adjust the velocities of your midi notes in the different sections of your piece - this will go a long way toward a more natural sound.  if your midi instruments are good, they will respond to different velocities by producing natural dynamics.  Not just changes in output, but changes in brightness.  As the velocity goes up, so does the brightness of the instrument.  That said, you can go overboard with velocities too, so watch this - keep it subtle.
2) Adjust the arrangement.  The louder passages should more dense - more instruments, more simultaneous notes.  The quieter passages - less dense - less instruments.  You don't have to have all instruments playing all the time.  Or maybe during a quieter passage the vibes play on single or two notes at a time, or less notes per measure....etc.  Also - you need to vary the drums - during quiet passages pick a closed HiHat or something.  During louder passages, go to the ride cymbal more.  Maybe you're already doing this?  Problem is I can't hear the cymbals.  On the whole the drums need to come up in the mix.  The cymbals are barely audible.
 
Don't give up - each version you've made shows big improvements.  Just get rid of those volume envelopes and adjust your arrangement.

OK.  You guys have convinced me.  Yes, I was using a lot of envelopes.  I'll take another pass adjusting velocities and thinning the arrangement to achieve that effect.  But I won't be able to get to that for a few days.
 
Thanks.

Here is the reworked version.
http://bordogni.info/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/V17-Sonar-Ver6.mp3
 
I brought in a new drum track and then did a lot of editing on that to try to get it more like what a drummer would actually play in this situation.  I think it is better, but there seems to be a deal that part of the snare is coming out on sticks and part is on brushes.  I haven't researched that yet  And the crash cymbal sounds more like a gong.  So that could still be improved a lot.  I haven't figured out how to substitute individual kit pieces on Session Drummer yet.
 
I did eliminate all the envelopes except for where I an taking out an instrument entirely for a few measures.
 
I did a bit of work with velocities, which I think worked better.  And I did some pruning to make the arrangement not as dense.  It still sounds really dense to me, so I might go back a lot more aggressively simplifying some of the parts (mainly vibes and drums)
 
Anyway, hopefully this eliminates the problem of it sounding like too much riding of the faders.

Well, the more I listened to that "version 6" track, the more I hated it.  The whole thing just sounds way too busy, and seems extremely compressed (even though I didn't use much compression).  The  spectrum is so full that the meters barely bounced at all during playback.  The drums were obnoxious and the bass came across too heavy when I listened on some cheap PC speakers.  (That is strange because I would have thought the PC speakers would have less bass than my studio monitors.)
 
So I went back to the drawing board.  I retained the recorded trombone track (out of tune middle C and all), but replaced everything else with a completely different arrangement that has better drums, and mainly just a trio for accompaniment.  (Piano, bass, drums with some light pads here and there.)  I like this a whole lot better.  I think the vibes were just too resonant to stay out of the way of the trombone and guitar.  I edited the MIDI on the piano to make it light and punchy.
 
http://bordogni.info/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/V17-T-Sonar-Ver7.mp3
 
I have learned a lot of techniques with this project, but the main thing is I got a real dose of "you can't mix your way out of crappy tracks." And a really interesting psycho-acoustic thing is that the bad pitch on the middle-Cs really doesn't bother me nearly as much on this track now.  I guess when the rest of the track was irritating, that caused my ear to go to every flaw, and this one is easier to enjoy without having such a critical ear.
 
Thanks again for all the ideas along the way.