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  • Another "too much bass?" question... (p.2)
2013/08/11 23:45:46
Rimshot
The bass and kick are not defined enough.  Here is a link to a great simple recording done by a friend of mine in France.  He did this with his Zoom R24 on 8 tracks.  The style is different from your band but listen to the mix and especially bass and drums.  It is really punchy and clear.  8 tracks!  
 
https://soundcloud.com/raphastar/no-stars
 
Rimshot
 
2013/08/11 23:47:23
gswitz
Danny, no one is paying for it. :-) It's a favor for friends. And I appreciate you helping me help my friends. I don't want you to think I am re-selling your help. I'm gifting it.
 
Next, when she (band member) listened in my 'studio' (room over garage), she liked it, but when she listened on her laptop, she did not. That's the real challenge here. I'm trying to mix for a BAD STEREO not a Good one. I even set up a pair of computer speakers on my desk and turned off the real stereo speakers and sub to try to get a picture of what her listening environment is, but even those did too good of a job on the bass as compared with her laptop.
 
I've made some tweaks to the kick tonight. I didn't actually push the level. I cut some low off the bass and put a sidechain on the bass (CA2A on Limit setting). I'm already hearing you say no no wrong direction. :-)
 
I know you would raise the high pass on the bass, and I didn't.
 
I'll try pulling the tube thing. I stuck that on there to try to get frequencies spread out in the audible range on her laptop (muddy in exchange for freq boost?).
 
I agree with pulling that off. I keep trying raising the cut off for the high pass on the bass, but I just lose so much of that great bass sound I'm loving. I can't do it.
 
I'll work more tomorrow. Bed time. Thanks so much for posting !! I have updated the posted MP3, so what you hear now is where I'm stopping tonight.
 
** How was your gig?? **
 
 
2013/08/11 23:51:58
gswitz
Thanks all for listening.
 
Guitartek and Rimshot, I've tried to help the bass along a little, as you saw in my reply to Danny. I'll try pushing the level harder tomorrow.
 
Best...
2013/08/12 18:35:19
Danny Danzi
gs: it's ok if you resell my info. LOL! It's provided in hopes of helping and given with love. :)
 
Laptop references: She can't go by that. I know you know that...she has to know it as well. Here's an idea. Give a listen to something on her laptop that she thinks sounds good. At least you can judge for yourself if it is indeed good or not. It helps when you can hear what others hear as it can also show you what you could be missing that is allowing them to like what they like. It's not going to fix anything totally, but it can help at times. It's rare you'll make everything sound right through speakers like those. Even ear buds can sometimes suffer unless the unit they are plugged into has bass boost or something. I mean granted, we want to get things sounding as good as we can on every system possible....but we also don't want to stress because 1/4 inch ear buds or 2 inch lappy speakers may not sound right. If you were to keep mixing for every place...you'll be here forever. However, this is where mastering comes in and can make a huge difference.
 
When I master something, I keep everything in mind and also try to give you a mix that will translate without distortion or too much low end on everything. The other side of the coin is this....and what I'll say here is something that may be an epiphany for you and others. No matter what you do....no matter what I do, no matter what Bob Ludwig or Mutt Lange would do, the second someone touches a piece of music (that isn't an engineer) they reach for their eq and ruin it with excessive eq. Seriously....I see it so often, it almost makes me not want to care anymore because the majority of common folks are so clueless. They either jack up the lows or raise EVERY frequency band just to get more volume. So at the end of the day, you could release something as great as a Doobie Brothers album...and still have someone jack it beyond recognition. Do the best you can, don't try for perfection on every system....and just keep that happy medium in mind while knowing you have done the best you could do.
 
As for the new mix, that's the right idea in my opinion. You can turn the bass guitar up a little more as I can no longer hear it as well consistently. I sort of feel it, but it's not as audible. Two things could be the cause. Do you know which two they may be?
 
1. Fader level could come up a bit and may be the fix
 
2. Side chaining could be removing the bass more than it should and may not be keeping it consistent
 
You know my feelings on side-chaining. I'm totally against it other than in certain situations when you have busy mixes, dance material, hip hop, but just about never on rock. Let me ask you a question. Why did you side-chain? See, I need to grill you on this stuff because I have quite a few students that do things "just because" or because they read about them. In this field bro, you should (at least in my opinion you should) always justify a means as to why you do something. Sure, sometimes we experiment. But, when compressors are shared to where instruments trade off like in a side-chaining situation, you do more harm than good unless you have a reason to add something like that.
 
In my opinion, you have a VERY healthy bass tone. If your eq fails on the kick and you are not happy with it, you can always replace it. I don't know if you have Drumagog or not, but you can actually use a killer kick from session drummer if need be. In case you're unsure how to do this...
 
Run audio snap on the kick track. Hi-lite the track, snap it up then "copy as midi" and paste it to a blank midi track using midi note number 35 or 36, (make sure your time line is completely rewound) fly in Session drummer on an audio track, set the midi out to SD3, pick the kick you want and bang...mix in the amount you want with the real one. This not only helps fix any problems you *may* have, it allows you a totally new canvas of eq's to work on for the kick. New thrust freq's and beater attack due to the sample being different than the original kick.
 
Don't ever feel like changing a sound is cheating. Sometimes the sound we record just isn't good. I'm not saying that's the case with your kick...but sometimes a sound just doesn't work. I think you have the right idea with the new mix as the kick has a bit more "ooomph" to it. I'd add a little snap to it....you know, some beater attack. Run your high end gain on the kick up all the way and sweep the freq until you hear some snap. Then of course back the gain down and experiment with the Q to see how things tighten up, then compress it so it's consistent. (the guy doesn't seem to *kick* it hard consistently) Or...like I said, run a Session Drummer kick along with your kick and hybrid....it makes for a really cool sound for added reinforcement. :)
 
Keep at it brother...it's getting there. Keep in mind, I'm not totally annihilating the mix because I don't see a need to. Blatant issues....I'll tell you about. Anything that may be subjective (which most of this is) I try to keep out unless I feel something is worth expressing. So take what I say with a grain of salt. :) Good luck!
 
-Danny
2013/08/12 18:38:33
Danny Danzi
My gig: Thanks for asking. It went pretty bad at first. My rig totally died in the first set. Thankfully, the place had their own guitar gear and they had a Marshall head for me to use...but it didn't have a power cord. LOL! Somehow...my guitar tech had a power cord. I have no idea how or why as I don't have a use for a power cord in my rig...so how it ended up in my gig bag, was an act of God.
 
I got a great sound out of the amp but all my effects were completely dead. So if you can picture EVH playing with no effects yet with his core drive sound...that's what it sounded like. I felt so naked without my flanger, phaser, delay, chorus etc. Couldn't do Cathedral which is a crowd fave....it was just, raw and dry....but we pulled it off and had a great show. Thanks for asking. :)
 
-Danny 
2013/08/13 09:30:32
gswitz
Is your gear damaged? I hope not.
2013/08/13 15:58:42
Danny Danzi
gswitz
Is your gear damaged? I hope not.


Yeah...looks like some costly rebuilding is in the works and nearly 2 decades worth of work lost. :( Well, not totally lost....just that it's time to create a new core tone where my old stuff has been on shakey ground. If I keep buying old, broken pre-amps for parts for my pre-amps, it's just putting a band-aide on the inevitable. Sometimes new is a good thing....but there are two things that make it horrible. $3k for what I want and no time or desire to create tones....uggh.
 
-Danny
2013/08/13 18:55:35
gswitz
I'm sorry, Danny. I feel your pain. I am often anxious when hauling my gear out.
 
I hope a good solution presents itself.
 
Try taking a little time and considering. After years of acquiring stuff, I often find a creative solution with what I have. Not always (witness the RME). Sometimes you have to break down and spend.
 
I'm currently updating the posted MP3. I boosted the bass and kick. I plan to make some changes to the lead guitar and one of the vocals, but I think I'm getting close to finished with this tune.
 
All the best,
 
G
2013/08/13 20:40:50
gswitz
Ok. Final changes are in place. I'm moving on.
 
http://stabilitynetwork.blob.core.windows.net/g-tunes/20130622_Anti_18_TheWeight.mp3
 
Thanks for the help everyone!!
2013/08/14 06:45:46
Danny Danzi
Thanks G. :) I've just been so comfortable with my gear/tones after tone chasing for so long....it's upsetting to think about all the additional work I have to do. This particular pre-amp that dropped, I have back-ups for starting in 1993. So at any given time, I can drop in a disk and see what my tones were like in 93 up to present. It's a really killer guitar pre-amp. Not exactly good news, but fair news....I obtained all the schematics for it and a certified Fender electronics tech has it and feels he could rebuild the thing with all good stuff. He's still checking out the unit though so at this point I don't know what can or can't be done. If he can fix this though, I have 4 more to send him and if he rebulds them, I should be good for another 40 years. LOL! :)
 
Listened to your tune...to me it sounds like the one I commented on the other day a bit. Not much change in the bass. It almost sounds like each time a kick and a bass hits that the bass drops slightly. It's not all the time, but it happens quite a bit to my ears. This (if what I'm hearing is correct) is one of the side effects of side-chaining and why I have a problem with it. YET...other times, the bass seems to be hitting with the kick...so as my dad would say to me in situations like this..."Danny, you're all wet". LOL!
 
I do like the sound of this version though....it doesn't seem as warm as the previous which to me is a good thing. You shined it up in the right areas. Bass just seems a little low to me and could use a bit more definition still. Anyway....the mix is fine enough in my opinion and is a good representation of the band. :) Nice job.
 
-Danny
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