craigb

Moshkito
Hi,
Here is a comment by Robert Fripp to Dave Cousins ... which fits many of you here.
"You're self-sufficient. You don't need any lessons! Anything else?"

Heck, even you don't believe that!

 
Yes, and no.
 
Knowing that Robert uses a heck of a lot of Gurdgieff exercises for improvisation and rehearsal, adapted to music of course, in the end, I think that Robert is saying that the person has a style and expression already, and that interfering with that is not a good idea.
 
No, in the sense that I would say it lighter and perhaps engage the person in conversation as to why they think/thought they needed a lesson, and maybe help with their confidence. My thoughts were that Dave Cousins at that time was OK with his stuff but felt insecure with people that knew/understood music better in another plane of existence, like the Grok planet!
 
Helping someone/anyone be better, is not about the notes and the chords and your Rachmaninoff. It's  about your relationship to the work, and your attitude and care to it. Sometimes, those details also "match" the situation, and sometimes they don't. This is specially clear in rock music, and one's attitude about it, which is often a part of the performance, specially for a vocalist, however, this is also where thing get distorted the most, and we lose sight of its definition.
 
But Robert knew that there was not a whole lot that he could help Dave with. I'm OK with that comment, even though it comes off bad somwetimes. It's almost the same thing here .. I do not really second guess anything you or Bapu say ... and I trust the fun behind it ... and sometimes it might have something in it, and sometimes not. But a goof laugh is always better than not! 

Moshkito
 
I would rather try and experiment and learn from the experiments, so people can get better on stage, and it doesn't matter to me if they are a musician, an actor or an idiot. I won't do a Trump, btw!
 
.................
 
I'm not in this for fame. I'm in this for the love of the work, and to ensure that the work comes off "bigger and better" than it might even be, so we think it's great and love it.
 
.................
 
I'm on a "course" to help bring all the arts alive ... theater needs fresh blood, and it is not a new musical on Broadway, or a big star doing Camelot in LA again ... it's something else ... and I can light up your performance and show ... if you have the desire to be "there".
 

Pedro - do you do anything these days as regards 'the arts'? I mean actually do anything, with other people?
 
You always talk about it as though you do, and yet you also talk about it in the past tense.
 
Just curious, not looking for an argument.

jamesg1213
Pedro - do you do anything these days as regards 'the arts'? I mean actually do anything, with other people?
...

Not answering since it would not matter what I said, and you guys would find a reason to disbelieve it.
 
Again, I don't need the credit, or the fame, or the applause. I just want to be myself, in the corner, and if it helps it does ... if it doesn't it doesn't.
 
But I find it re-assuring, when someone is doubting what I say already, and is not big enough to go play with it and try to see if there is any truth to it. I know it works, and have seen it and helped it. I don't need you, or your words, or affirmation to prove it to my heart what I have seen and done.
 
If you don't believe me ... fine! But you can not erase my work, and my life just because you think you can play a dang song in front of 10 people and I talk about it with the stage and you do not believe what I am saying! The truth is only visible, when you want to see it. If you don't ... then DON'T, but don't go about putting people down because you can't see them!

 
"I really did not look to see what you play but if you are the drummer or the bass player you better have your **** together musically and know the material. The rest is just more or less icing on the cake anyway except for the vocal."
 
What Billy said, right there. If your bassman and drummer are in synch and in the groove, its pretty easy to add the filigree.
 
Also (as Billy says) it helps to start with an easy no-brainer three chorder that the instrumentalists can take turns soloing on. Think Hey Bartender.
 
Cheers,
 
Bert

Moshkito

jamesg1213
Pedro - do you do anything these days as regards 'the arts'? I mean actually do anything, with other people?
...

Not answering since it would not matter what I said, and you guys would find a reason to disbelieve it.
 
Again, I don't need the credit, or the fame, or the applause. I just want to be myself, in the corner, and if it helps it does ... if it doesn't it doesn't.
 
But I find it re-assuring, when someone is doubting what I say already, and is not big enough to go play with it and try to see if there is any truth to it. I know it works, and have seen it and helped it. I don't need you, or your words, or affirmation to prove it to my heart what I have seen and done.
 
If you don't believe me ... fine! But you can not erase my work, and my life just because you think you can play a dang song in front of 10 people and I talk about it with the stage and you do not believe what I am saying! The truth is only visible, when you want to see it. If you don't ... then DON'T, but don't go about putting people down because you can't see them!

 
I'm not saying I believe, or disbelieve you. It was a straightforward question. As you're so evasive about it, I'll have to assume the answer is 'no'.
 

don't go about putting people down because you can't see them!

 
Read back to yourself what you just wrote to me, and throughout this thread to other people too.
 
'Practice what you preach'.

Moshie is a rather odd fellow and it is odd he hangs out on a musician's board (I just figured he uses the program for audio stuff related to theater) however he did make some good points in his OP I was going to expound upon before abandoning the post.
 
Particularly the visual cue part and ensuring there is always an onstage "leader" of some sort that people can glance at if they get lost. In a band if there is one guy (or gal) everyone can poke their head up at and/or is so familiar with the material they can immediately hear when someone is in trouble then provide some kind of subtle instruction to that member (or all the members) then it can really keep a show moving along.
 
A perfect example would be a guy like Pete Townsend in the Who. Those guy's were essentially one huge mistake live. It was a massive jam that came back together around specific musical or physical cues. Pete's flailing about was of course a lot of theatrical nonsense but at the same time served as cues for the rest of the band in their rolling chaos live style.
 
Bring that down to a more normal level where the performance is more structured just a glance or nod or headband or slight shift of a fretboard or whatever can help a band member who's gotten lost (sometimes they can't hear what's going on because of poor sound or the nerves got to them or any other number of reasons) just brings it all back together for long enough no one notices. Doesn't even have to be the official band leader... just the weirdo who has that knack for knowing exactly what should happen when. All the members however should have a bit of that skill on their own so everyone can look at everyone at any time but having that one main anchor that EVERYONE knows they can look to for cues in an "emergency" goes a long way to keeping the show from coming to a complete stop in the middle of a song... which is the WORST.
 
Anyway... knowing there's one person sharing the stage with you that can throw out a life preserver can definitely reduce anxiety IME. Sadly I used to be that guy most of the time which in many ways added to my anxiety... but in other ways, if everyone actually knew I was the lifeboat and knew to take a quick glance at me when needed, quelled it a bit because it was a level of control. It all depended on the people involved. Usually I'd work very closely with the drummer in this regard who traditionally are the ones who are paying attention to what should be happening when.
 
Drummers tend to be a little nuts though and it is very hard to find ones who understand the crucial role they play in such things.
 
Meh...
 
That all just goes right back to proper practice and preparation being the best anxiety relief for performance anxiety. I'd imagine a soldier feels a lot more confidant going into battle with a good commander and a squad he's personally trained with incessantly.
 
Cheers.

Beepster
Moshie is a rather odd fellow and it is odd he hangs out on a musician's board (I just figured he uses the program for audio stuff related to theater) however he did make some good points in his OP I was going to expound upon before abandoning the post."
 
from memory,he had a problem with a plugin and craig wouldn`t help him so it`s been payback since. 
 
he may have made some good points but there are the other points:rude,innapropriate,embarrassing,unneccessary particularly recent comments regarding tertiary qualifications etc.
as James said,there must be a Film/Theatre forum where his considerable expertise and knowledge would be appreciated and constructive.
on one hand,he is a pain in the arse but on the other at least he livens the forum up and you cant block everyone but just wish he would lighten up.
 
plus,with the time/space continuum and the curvature of the earth I will always be one post ahead of him and will therefore always win any argument .
cheers

webbs hill studio
from memory,he had a problem with a plugin and craig wouldn`t help him so it`s been payback since. 

 
Actually, he wanted me to teach him something I didn't know how to do, so I simply told him to try exactly what I would have to do to learn it: Read the manual and experiment.
 

craigb

webbs hill studio
from memory,he had a problem with a plugin and craig wouldn`t help him so it`s been payback since. 

 
Actually, he wanted me to teach him something I didn't know how to do, so I simply told him to try exactly what I would have to do to learn it: Read the manual and experiment.
 

sorry craig:I forgot the relevant smiley-I was being sarcastic!

webbs hill studio
it would be nice to play in a cover band or do 400 year old songs from sheet music but when it`s your own material it becomes way more personal and there is far more room for error.

The opposite is true for me. Unless your own music is as well known as the covers - there is no comparisons being made. Errors are not noticed by anyone but yourself.... I find that easier to control on a stage. 
 
But that may just be me - it's just my opinion.
 
Now - if the concern and stage fright stems from whether or not they like your song.... that's a little different but really easy to get around. Don't tell them it's yours unless they are clapping/cheering when it's over! Telling a crowd you are going to play an original is like a classic artist saying "we're going to play something new".... INSTANT negativity from a crowd. Just sneak it in and get an honest response to the song.