• SONAR
  • 'Mix buss' versus 'Master' (p.4)
2017/09/02 04:11:00
bitflipper
Do whatever works for you. That's the beauty of digital: it's actually pretty hard to f*ck it up too badly.
2017/09/02 06:08:56
Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
John
I'm with Dave on this.




Me too.
 
I can see a reason for a separate mixbux for those guys who use ARC software in their master bus and don't want to have that printed on their exports ... but I don't use ARC or likewise ...
 
But different goals need different means to get them. Whatever works for you is fine
2017/09/02 06:35:52
Zargg
I am in the "easy setup group" as well.
Besides routing instruments and voc to separate busses. (Reverbs and delays also gets separate busses) I route those directly to Master. I have Master routed to another bus (Correction), with ARC on it, and then out to mains. When exporting, I route directly from Master to mains.
All the best.
2017/09/02 07:08:15
John
Rob[atSound-Rehab]
John
I'm with Dave on this.




Me too.
 
I can see a reason for a separate mixbux for those guys who use ARC software in their master bus and don't want to have that printed on their exports ... but I don't use ARC or likewise ...
 
But different goals need different means to get them. Whatever works for you is fine


I was going to say the same thing. I don't think I could have said it as well.
2017/09/02 18:21:32
tagruvto
I use a Submaster and Master Buss.  
I run my reference tunes through Sample Magic  (Magic AB).
I don't want to add more compression, etc. to the already mastered reference tunes, so Sample Magic is
on the Master Buss.  Any global compression, etc. is on the Submaster.
 
If I use ARC II, it does go on the Master Buss and is the last in line.
2017/09/02 19:14:20
konradh
I don't see what purpose this would serve.  If there are no effects on the pre-Master bus, it does nothing.  If there are effects. why no just put them on Master?
 
I use subs for guitars, vocals, keyboards, drums, orchestra, etc. so I can correct overall levels without messing up all my fader movements; but those subs all go to Master.
 
Someone people may use the pre-Master bus to vary levels so they don't have to touch Master, but that wouldn't really change anything except their perception; and I would not be a fan of riding a fader on an overall mix.
2017/09/03 12:57:18
interpolated
I'm starting to use a new workflow which incorporates Auxiliary tracks and Patch Points (in some way if I can find a use). Does anybody here use external outboard gear to send/return results back into Sonar?
 
I know much of this doesn't need to happen because of newer interfaces which keeps the signal flow along one cable and interface.  The thing is, you see all these producer/engineers in their $10,000 a day studio with their big consoles etc. demonstrating all these plug-ins they probably don't use in final sessions. 
 
It makes me wonder if investing so much money into all of the gear and software is counter productive. I have small needs really.
 
In fact, the next project I do I will try to use as much virtual analogue stuff as possible to see if it actually makes a difference to the final production. My remix and reconstruction of nightwalkers mainly used virtual analogue emulations in software form. So although it's a lot of extra work I think this will be my new workflow.
 
Also I started grouping fader tracks again, so the console mixer behaves more like an automated mixer.
2017/09/04 11:44:54
olemon
Eventually, all instrument and vocal busses are routed to a bus I call Mix which is then routed to a bus I call Master which is routed to the main outs.
 
On Mix, I place global affects such as bus compression.  On Master, I typically have a metering plugin followed by the Sonarworks Ref 3 headphone plugin.  When I think I'm finished mixing I often put a maximizer first in the chain on Master too, just to hear how that sounds and to see how hard I have to hit an L2, for example.  Before exporting the mix I disable or delete the affects on Master.  I guess I could delete Master altogether, but I usually don't and when I return to tweak the mix the project is still set up.
2017/09/04 15:30:59
SMcNamara
...wicked
I use two. All my instrument sub-group buses (Drums, Gtr, Synths, Vox...) got to a SUBMASTER bus. I usually keep this at -6dB 

 
By "keep this at -6dB" are you referring to the fader setting?  I ask because that seems to be a fair assumption, for the purpose of leaving headroom for mastering, but if the tracks/busses feeding it are "hot" then the overall signal might approach 0dB.  Thus, what do you do to maintain headroom?
 
And a second question for the group:  I see of lot of mentions about a limiter on the Master bus at -0.1, which makes sense if you're truly using Sonar for real mastering.  If not, wouldn't you want more headroom?
 
Thanks for all the help,
 
Steve
2017/09/04 15:47:16
SMcNamara
One other thing I'll add to this discussion:
 
For fun I tried the following last night and it's (so far) helpful -- I added a third bus called "headphones" which is fed by the Master bus (temporarily).  It has a headphone reference plugin (Waves Nx system) to use while tracking and mixing as needed.  Before finalizing a track the setup is:
 
1.  The Mixing bus feeds the Master bus and contains console emulations, multiband "glue" compressor (Ozone if necessary), stuff like that.
2.  The Master bus feeds the soundcard but also has a prefader send to the Headphones bus, with the fader temporarily set at zero (to avoid sending double the signal to the soundcard).  Plugs here include a Limiter, Sample Magic A/B for reference, SPAN.  I was pleased to discovered these also work just fine with the fader set at zero (the Sonar singal flow chart was very helpful).  Here's the key:  I created a quick group for the mute buttons on the Master bus and Headphones bus, starting with one on and one off when the group was created.  That way, when I'm ready, I mute the Headphone bus, bring the Master up to zero and it sends directly to the sound card.
 
This may all prove to be too complex in the end, but I like having the Nx system available and not in the Master chain.  YMMV 
 
Steve
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