Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. I like to find a basic beat with the right groove and drag it out to 4 minutes or so, and start laying down a guitar track (or something) as a guide for the arrangement. It would be pretty hard to beat the ease and speed of EZ Drummer 2 at this stage. Once I get a drum track pretty close to done I may take the midi and paste it in tracks with other samplers (AD2) in my case and see if things sound or fit better with it. I have to use the EZmap inside AD2 or EZ PLayer Pro to make this conversion. It sounds like it wouldn't be any harder to use BFD3 in the same way. Like I said before...This is one advantage for SD2. No conversion required. Drag and drop.

While SD2 may not need a map for the EZ drummer beats, loading a key map in bfd3 takes about a second. Plus if you always work that way, you can make it a default keymap and then never change it again.

One thing that bugs me about SD2 is that you can't load a default key map (for me Yamaha vDrums) that is always in effect. You CAN do this with EZD2 but not SD2.

bapu

twaddle

bapu
All I know is that occasionally (depending on the kits chosen) what sounded good in the source MID program (ie EZD) sounded wrong in the resultant program (ie BFD2). Almost like the level (velocity?) of a kit piece hit was considerably off between the two programs; either much softer or much louder.
 
I'm not speaking of overall kit level but on an individual kit piece hit basis.
 
As I said, OBO.

Ah, okay, that could be down to the dynamic range or loudness curve in BFD3.
There's a "loudness panel" in BFD3 where you can adjust the range, curve and velocity dynamics so this can make a big difference to how it will play with one midi file in two different drum vsti's.
 
The drums in both BFD2 and BFD2 were recorded very hot and so will sound much louder anyway, that's what I liked about it. The Platinum Sample stock BFD3 kits are much quieter in comparison but still louder than EZdrummer.
 
Steve

Steve,
 
Let me make an case based on what you said and what I believe happened to me.
 
Say the MIDI I choose was made against an EZD2 kit. And suppose that kit had 10 levels of hits on the snare. And let's say they range from -10db to 0db in 1db increments. I believe that when EZD2 receives a MIDI Velocity of 127 it will play the 0db (loudest) sample. When will it play the -1db sample? I suspect that will play the -1db sample when velocity is between 103 to 115 and so on down the MIDI veloity scale of 1-127. 
 
Now, say that same velocity is sent to BFD3 kit that has 20 levels of recorded hits ranging from -10db to 0db in .5db increments.
 
When will BFD3 play the loudest and when will it play the next loudest based on MIDI velocity? I assume it will play the loudest sample at 127 but will play the next loudest somewhere in the approx MIDI velocity of 115-121.
 
Will each MIDI velocity produce the same audio output level assuming all "audio" parameters are equal in both EZD2 and BFD3. IOW a 127 MIDI velocity in both systems would be "balanced" to achieve a 0db level. Then what happens to both systems as the receive each midi velocity down the scale. Will the both produce the same db output. I highly suspect not because what would be the point of some kits that that tout have more sample layers than other kits?
 
I suppose that the number of audio level samples for toms is less than snares and within toms that may vary (ie less samples for lowest pitched tom vs the highest pitched) and that cymbals are less audio samples than toms. Get my drift (see what I did there).
 
Maybe I am misunderstanding the relationship of the audio levels and number of samples per kit piece to the received MIDI velocity by the drum host. But that is the best explanation for what I was sure I was hearing when I used another manufacturers supplied MIDI for a specific kit mapped into another drum host using a "similar" tyoe kit (IOW I was not using a Jazz MIDI from EZD2 to run a Metal Kit in BFD3).
 
And again, this is OBO based on what I heard when I took an EZD2 MIDI file and mapped it in BFD3. It wasn't an overall drum kit level as was one of your supposition but a weirdness in the relative volumes of the kit pieces within the context of kits chosen for the two hosts.
 
If all drum hosts had the same number of audio samples and interpreted the MIDI velocity exactly the same I wiould expect the same MIDI in both hots to sound the same (in relative kit piece context) between the two hosts. But I believe that this is not the case and therefore some sample libraries tout their sample layer counts (are these what you are referring to as articulations?).

When you put it like that I see where you're coming from and I'm not knowledgeable enough on the workings of velocities and dynamic range to say for certain but you could be right.
Having said that, does superior drummer not have far more velocity layers than EZdrummer and does the same midi track differ in loudness as much as it does in BFD3? If your theory is correct (and I'm not saying it;'s not) then it should be the same, or similar difference should it not?
 
Articulations mean the same thing in all drum vst's, they are just the different types of hit, like side stick, left and right snare, flam, rim, half edge and drag, EZdrummer typically wont have as many articulations per kit piece as as superior drummer or BFD3.
 
Interesting conundrum though
 
Steve

Steve,
 
As my mate Daryl says, it's all dogs bollocks. Just sue what you like.
 
However you do bring up an interesting point. I have never started with EZD2 and then decided to go to SD2 with same MIDI selections.
 
When I chose EZD2 or Sup2 it was based on the kit I wanted and I don't recall ever using an EZD/EZD2 kit in Sup2. And thus I probably would never experience a "difference" but I may well try it to see if I get similar results.

And BTW, I may be absolutely off base on the why I heard what I heard. My ears may well have not been functioning at peak level.

BassDaddy
Superior Drummer 3 should come with a  new version of EZ Player Pro and it should have the great browsing and song building functions of EZ Drummer 2. I will be looking for the blowout prices on SD 2 then buy the SD 3 uppdate/upgrade.

This is what makes me pause. If I knew they would expand SD3 to include the features of EZD2...then this is what I would do. BFD3 is freaking huge. I don't have a dedicated drive for samples. I have a OS drive, a projects drive and a external drive for backups. I think I have 240 gigs left on my OS drive.

This is what makes me pause. If I knew they would expand SD3 to include the features of EZD2...then this is what I would do. BFD3 is freaking huge. I don't have a dedicated drive for samples. I have a OS drive, a projects drive and a external drive for backups. I think I have 240 gigs left on my OS drive.

 
It is big, more than twice the size of superior.
Superior is about 20GB (?) whereas BFD3 is 54GB.
 
It's definitely recommended to use a separate drive for your drum samples.
In fact a lot of people (my self included) have separate drives for my "recorded" audio (guitars, bas and vocals) and another drive just for drums.
 
I have 280GB of drum samples, (mostly fxpansion) on a dedicated drive just for drum samples.
 
You can run BFD3 (or superior) from your os drive but it depends on how many tracks you run in your average song/project. The more tracks the more stress you are putting on the one disk so using multiple disks will spread the load. An internal 500GB drive can be got for pretty cheap and this is what I use for my drum samples.
 
My Drive
 
 
Steve

SD3 may be getting done but they dropped SD1 completely and then did SD2. What could have gone in SD3 seems to have put in EzD2. BFD has always sounded great but it was at the time always bigger and more expensive. SD2 was a cheaper. If you purchase the Slate presets pack then you get Slate's drums sound - the equivalent of his EX package. Not sure you need SD2 if you've got EzD2. You can however pick it up cheap secondhand or on sale.

I believe I'm going to sit back and see what happens between now and Christmas. I'm not in any dire need to buy anything, but I wouldn't mind up grading if I can get one of them 50% off. I am concerned about my hard drive situation. I may get another one of those first.

BTW, there is no difference of sound using an EZ kit in SD2! it is only that you have the FX inserts and more options to insert those FX anywhere in the channels or busses. The quality of the raw samples of the EZ kit is still the same. It's in the options of routing and effecting that you have more options open.