I am truly sorry to have caused such disappointment, I had no idea people would perceive it this way.  One person thought it sounded like Homer Simpson and was disgusting--and that's not what it is at all.  I've included the sung version of the choir (what resembles the words in my mind in some other language that sound like "cholly jolly energy" but are not the actual words) right here:

http://soundcloud.com/mat...w-zelda-opening-song-1

But I'm not sure if this even matters at this point.

This was not meant to be a disgrace to musicians.  This is not intended as a joke and I am very serious.  This was coming from someone who has a deep emotional bond with music and produces unique and powerful music in his head.  I posted this song of mine for people to feel free and actually produce it if they wish to.  I truly did expect everyone else to actually perceive the actual song that's in my mind and what it feels to me.  Again, I apologize.

Granted, I haven't heard this song, yet, but I will say that judging from the above posts, I'm afraid I might end up agreeing. However, I do believe what appears to be the crux of your problem ...

You need to work on the composition/arrangement. Yes, I sound like a hypocrite because I do things this way, too; however, I'm one of those persons who puts everything on the table and then I start taking things off.

So, this is what I suggest:

Treat writing a song like yo would a book/essay, etc.) Just throw down every idea you can think of, then start trimming. The same thing goes with arranging.

Composition = what plays what - Arrangement of Composition = what plays what and when (there is much more to both elements, but these are the main factors.)

This song (Composition) will have 20 tracks. Its arrangement: 10 of them will play at the beginning, the other 10 will play in the middle. All 20 will play at the end. (That's an example).

Work on this part first before you start to mix/produce either by yourself or someone else does it. How will they know what to do if you don't? It's okay, to not know what to do and ask questions on how to mold or shape it, but you need an idea.

I can't (I can, but he and I know better) give GuitarHacker a huge pile of sand and tell him to build Disneyland's castle as he'll have no idea what it looks like (I know he does) and most certainly if I have no idea what it looks like (and I do) I don't know what it'll turn into, but odds are it'll be that same pile of sand as he'll probably say: "Are you freaking kidding me?!" (Even if I tell him to build that particular castle).

Yet, this could happen: He could start to build something and it partly looks like it or maybe he partially builds something else and I view it and go with his idea instead as my initial idea was quite lofty anyway. He'll probably gladly continue until the project is done or he'll collaborate with other - or even me and it'll end up totally different, but something I'm probably more satisfied with then I initially thought.

Therefore, what you need to iron out is, the composition, arrangement and worry about production later; however, there's nothing wrong with experiment in this area. Ultimately, figure out the initial idea and if it changes, so be it. Music adapts, so, too, should the composer/arranger doing such.

Again, it's fine if you don't know what you - I should say - what the music wants/needs want, but if you not willing to figure it out or listen when tells you. Music isn't stubborn - only if the people who creating it are.

Edit: I don't think the above posts meant to be or in fact, are, harmful as I've gotten critiques that I didn't like and took hard initially, but if you step back a bit. I did just that and to me, my pieces are better for it. Nothing wrong with constructive criticism.

Not picking on Ben, but he's very blunt with what he says, doesn't mean it's not helpful. The other thing to is, I hope you didn't come thinking that most if everyone would like it. (Not everybody likes a well-polished piece - in all areas). 

It wouldn't surprise me if you went back (after awhile) and go: "These guys were right! What the hell was I doing/thinking?" This question isn't one of disappointment moreso than it is seeing/hearing what you want to see/hear vs. what you actually see/hear. (This is displayed beyond belief when mixing/producing - ie: Falling in love with the initial mix). 

Composition and/or the arrangement of it isn't excluded either, but this is where trimming things down comes in which can be done very easily.

So, again, gather ideas, organizing them into something cohesive and coherrent (sp?); then do the production stuff later. What, when, then how (and perhaps why).

Don't build the castle before you purchase the sand. (Cart, before horse, you know?) 

http://www.youtube.com/wa...7I&feature=related

Thank you, Rus W, your response is very helpful.  But it's really strange how I can hear the action and that other happy-like tune play together perfectly in my head (both in how they go together in technical terms as well as feel).  It's just that I sung the song with flaws which makes everything completely off.

Matt, you do not need to defend yourself. There are one or two arses who think they are gods gift to music and this forum, but when you hear their crap, its... well crap... so where some of these bozos are coming from is beyond me. You have a vision you want realized. There is nothing wrong with that. You came and asked for help, and instead you got arrogance and ego, which is so very wrong. If Chuckbaby was all that good... well he would not be *here*. I would not pay him to wipe my arse. As I said, I am willing to help if I can, but I have no illusions about my crap.

MattMVS7


Thank you, Rus W, your response is very helpful.  But it's really strange how I can hear the action and that other happy-like tune play together perfectly in my head (both in how they go together in technical terms as well as feel).  It's just that I sung the song with flaws which makes everything completely off.

This is probably the composer's biggest problem. It's slightly easier for the arranger as s/he has something to look at/hear (the tune) and sculpt over, underneath and around it; yet the same process occurs to solve a similar problem; however, as the post above me states, seems as though you're being too hard on yourself and I think this was before you read the "not-so-nice" comments.


Here's the reason: You're forcing it! Like I said earlier, music isn't some mule you can just kick around or a dog you should kick or keep kicking when he's down. Take a break here and there, so your ears and mind are refreshed and open as this will help you work better.


I hear things all the time and the changes, too and why worry about flaws? Without them, you needn't sculpt and shape and that part should be fun. While the end result is desirable, that should be the only thing. I admire your focus and grit, but don't try so hard.


Pardon the expression, but "Don't rush perfection!" It takes years to cultivate a craft or if you have it already develop it further. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Now, you mentioned that when you sung the song, things were off. What things? Could it be that you were off and didn't realize? Also, what do you mean by off? Timing/Rhythm/Sounds? which leads to composition again.

Most don't like rigid rhythms (and this okay); however, rhythm wise, they certainly frown upon a chaotic sequence, Whether or not you are able to explain to me what is off, it's good that you know something is, but realize that when listening to music, sometimes it's off-its-rocker and there's nothing wrong with that.

Also I would advise re-working the composition/arrangement in tiny fragments. Like a musician practicing a song - play it in fragments. Scan those fragments to find what it is you don't like more importantly, what it is you do even if it's not what you initially hear. There's only one Amadeus Wolfgang Mozart - the rest of us can only attempt to emulate him (ie: pull full songs out of our heads), but unsuccessfully do so.

Music is bound by its creator (no pun intended), but it, too, has its own identity. Don't lose sight of this.

To paraphrase Costner from Field of Dreams: "If you're patient, it'll happen!" or if you prefer the clichè: "Good things come to those who wait!"

Patience is a virtue despite being a very easy thing to lose.

foxwolfen


Matt, you do not need to defend yourself. There are one or two arses who think they are gods gift to music and this forum, but when you hear their crap, its... well crap... so where some of these bozos are coming from is beyond me. You have a vision you want realized. There is nothing wrong with that. You came and asked for help, and instead you got arrogance and ego, which is so very wrong. If Chuckbaby was all that good... well he would not be *here*. I would not pay him to wipe my arse. As I said, I am willing to help if I can, but I have no illusions about my crap.

(clap hands slowly) yaaaay !!!!
 
youve really stepped up in the world ?
i should have listened to everyone in the coffee house,back when i was sticking up for you saying i thought you were a pretty decent person.
the way you talked about this place needing a change...the way people were talking to eachother..stabing eachother in the back..
 
well,well,well.
looks like you were wearing a mask the whole time hu?
im an Arse ? ..picking out my spelling mistakes?
thats bottom of the barrel low. and nothing what you were preeching before ?
 
i wont even waste my time insulting you.
i thought this thread was a joke.
 
why dont you ask him what he used to record those tracks with ?
was this a copy of X2 ?
that wasnt even mentioned.
 
this is what offens me,someone not talking the correct steps to learn about the trade.
but instead someone saying,give me....give me..can someone do my song.
i didnt even see a please in there.
 
but what offens me more,is actualy stuck up for you thinking you were someone you were not.
someone you made me believe was defensless and being picked on by the others because you were taking a stand to be the better person.
 
Take not:
i didnt Call him any names.
but you,you had no problem even calling me out using my name,folled by insults.
 
by the way,my links to my songs are in my sigs,if you think thats crap ?
im not sure if your the person who should be giving advise,because im not saying im gods gift to music.
but those seem to be complete songs mixed and mastered by an average engineer.  
 

Matt im curious,did you record these samples with sonar ?
and if so,what version ?

Chuck, who cares? Maybe the guy likes what he heard here and that's why he asked. It is a simple request, and he does not deserve to be treated in the manner you are treating him. Where do you get off telling somebody who asked for help that his attempts to show us what he envisioned was "disgusting". I thank you for any defence you may have given me in the past, but if that is the kind of person you are, then I will thank you to not in the future. This is not some snobby ego ridden private club full of professional engineers, its a song forum full of laymen and amateurs. The guys attempt to record his thoughts does not disgust me; your reaction to it does.

Matt- Be prepared to pay if you want to hear this done right. I have worked with people that do not play an instrument and it is the hardest thing in the world to do. There is a real language barrier and for me to work in that situation would take a ton of money just to even get me interested. It can be done but to get good results then like others have said you need to offer someone some real cash for it.

Again as others have said, learn to play an instrument and learn the craft. That is the right way to do things in most people's eyes. There will be a few that disagree but it is the most rewarding way as well as the right way.

Good luck.