tlw
There's a role for loops, there's a role for more realistic drum parts and there's a role for the more "traditional" kind of drum machines like the 808 and 909 and their more sophisticated modern descendants such as the Elekton drum machines.

It all depends on what you want the music to sound like and what kind of feel you want it to have. 

Absolutely!! I use both, depending on context. For loops, I love the Discrete Drums loops. Drummers who've heard my neo- album are convinced I used a real drummer...well actually, I guess did. But two of the songs used programmed drums, and no one noticed.

HaHa! Thanks Anderton! This is too good to be true!
 
I looked up Discreet Drums and see that one of my old Memphis friends, Greg Morrow, who is now a drummer in Nashville, did some of the Discreet Drums. Greg did a session for me in Nashville a while back and is the same ole Greg. I think he was voted Nashville Drummer of the Year last year. Greg is also credited on several ZZ Top records. So now, I gotta try Discreet Drums! This will be like having an old friend playing drums for me again. Greg and I did our first session together back in the early 1980s in a little studio in north Mississippi. I keep claiming to be his first paying customer, but he refutes that and says, no, his first paying session was in Memphis. I still like to tell my version, though!
 
And if that isn't enough, Joe Hardy is listed as the engineer. It appears from the web site that Joe did this in Nashville, but Joe is in Houston now and a Facebook friend. Joe did a LOT of ZZ's stuff, and still does stuff for BFG's solo projects the last I heard. Joe also engineered my first Memphis demo at Ardent Studios. I used to stop by there a lot to visit, but soon he did his first ZZ album...can't remember which one...but it was back in the MTV heyday during the Eliminator-Afterburner-Recycler days. After that I never could stop by and just find him available to visit. But Joe and Greg both have done extremely well.
 
Thanks for the tip, Anderton! This is gonna be cool!
 

I program all my own drums. I always have since the inception of the drum machine...which back then took months to learn the interface of a drum machine. the manuals looked like a Sears catalog.
 
anyway, I find samples, loops, programing your drums are a great tool to use while creating the foundation of your work/songs.
but when its crunch time and you want the best possible sound. mic up a kit and get yourself a drummer.
I know this is not practical for everyone but real drums blow away any sample made.
there are certain nuances about a drummer, real drums that can not be captured no matter what you do.
even a poor drummer itself can bring a lively feel to something any sample can not. which is a robotic, flat totally in time drum line.
I know some will say, but theres things you can do to make them sound real. those people are right, there are things you can do to make drums sound real. trust me i know. ive made a video on it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruAnAPR6-hQ
 
but that's just it...the difference between "Sounds real" and "Real" are miles apart. 

Chuck, that's basically my belief too concerning a real drummer. What is the goal of all the drum loops and programs, and the more and more elaborate mapping and programming? To sound like a real drummer. I just don't have to ability and patience to sit down for (what would take me hours) to program or map out a drum line. With my limited ability I'm much better off with loops. And if I am really serious about a drum part sounding live, it just makes sense to me to get a live drummer. This can get expensive unless you have a friend that does it free, or swaps drum tracks for guitar or bass or other parts.
 
I'm not knocking midi drums and programming them in general. But I've been doing music a long time and I don't have much more talent for programming and mapping drums that I do for playing the saxophone, which I have never even touched. Some people try it, find they have a knack for it, they find they like doing it, and they good get at it. I'm just not that person. I wish I was, but I'm not. I'd waste part of the night every night for a week trying to map out something and it would be nothing but a frustration for me, and I'd never get it just the way I wanted it. Someone who's good at it could sit down and do it in a fraction of the time and it would sound great.
 
Thanks for the YouTube link. You really have a mastery of this stuff! Very cool!
 
So for me, I have the thinking that you do. If I want a really good sound like a live drummer, then I think it's best to just get a live drummer. When I started digital recording several years ago I went to some workshops in Nashville to learn something about it. One speaker talked a good bit about drums and when it was over I asked him about programmed drums and drum loops and he said, "A real drummer is always going to sound better." I'm sure there are plenty of exceptions, but his point was well taken.

JustGotPaid
 
So for me, I have the thinking that you do. If I want a really good sound like a live drummer, then I think it's best to just get a live drummer. When I started digital recording several years ago I went to some workshops in Nashville to learn something about it. One speaker talked a good bit about drums and when it was over I asked him about programmed drums and drum loops and he said, "A real drummer is always going to sound better." I'm sure there are plenty of exceptions, but his point was well taken.

It might be how you define "real drummer."  Plenty of drummers can't keep tempo, over play, on top of the challenge of recording drums.  
 
Drum loops are frequently made by real drummers in ideal recording situations, so saying a "real drummer" sounds better is an oxymoron.  
 
A great drummer playing to your song is ideal.  But it isn't unusual for drum software to create a much more polished sounding recording if the drummer isn't top shelf and the recording environment isn't great.  
 
In fact, many studios record drummers without cymbals and have them trigger AD or Session drummer.  It is becoming much more common as you can get a far more controlled end result that way.  Virtually all of those "midi" drum loops are created by real drummers also.  

With all due respect, we're just getting into semantics now, and re-stating the obvious with nit-picky phrasing analysis.

JustGotPaid
With all due respect, we're just getting into semantics now, and re-stating the obvious with nit-picky phrasing analysis.

Yet you say you are familiar with all of these MIDI drum programs, but fail to state the obvious that they are essentially no different than your drum loops unless you want to take them a step further and alter them.  They do have the advantage of being able to be used over any BPM, not just the limited set a drum loop will provide.  
 
Real drummer plays a groove and that grove is captured and played back by actual recorded drum samples, that is MIDI drumming software.   
 
Your OP read like getting into semantics right from the start.  I'm stating the obvious, because honestly it sounds like you need it on this subject.  With all due respect, assuming your OP wasn't just trolling.  

There's one in every crowd.

JustGotPaid
There's one in every crowd.

Have you tried using the drum programs to just copy and paste the provided grooves in the same way as a drum loop would offer?  
 
Your OP seems to imply that you equate these programs with programming and working with midi, yet you don't have to do any of that with them.  
 
I've offered plenty of insight that is not at the level of semantics.  
 
If your friend who uses Sonar also has Plat, sharing file with MIDI drums takes up a lot less room than a WAV file does.  I'd say tempo changing of any groove is a pretty major advantage over Drum Loops.  Adding grooves to the project is just as simple.  
 
The only real workflow advantage I'd see with drum loops is it isn't using your processor as much given that it isn't having to use a VSTi, assuming you are taking about before you freeze or print the track.  
 
Drum Loops are fine for many things, but yes, quite a few advantages to MIDI drums even if you don't want to edit any of them.  

Brian Walton

JustGotPaid
 
So for me, I have the thinking that you do. If I want a really good sound like a live drummer, then I think it's best to just get a live drummer. When I started digital recording several years ago I went to some workshops in Nashville to learn something about it. One speaker talked a good bit about drums and when it was over I asked him about programmed drums and drum loops and he said, "A real drummer is always going to sound better." I'm sure there are plenty of exceptions, but his point was well taken.

 
Drum loops are frequently made by real drummers in ideal recording situations, so saying a "real drummer" sounds better is an oxymoron.  
 

that's just the point. they are recorded in "too ideal recording situations".
when a snare is hit by a real drummer, you also get that hi hat bleed through the snare mic. samples don't have the natural ability to create these nuances. instead you get a one hit sample (even at multiple velocity's)
 
there is such a thing called "too polished" and it becomes obvious.
im guessing next your going to tell me guitar sims sound better than real amps .
 
the only Oxymoron is one who doesn't explore all options and as I said before, drum samples are great for building songs / for people who don't have the means (not enough room, late at night, don't have drums).
but he's absolutely correct, a "real drummer" always is and always will be a better option.
trust me, I use samples all the time. just not for my finished product. that's left for a real drummer, with a real kit.