• SONAR
  • Clips not in exactly the same place when frozen (p.2)
2017/08/13 17:53:10
paulo
Brando
I never use TTS-1 and in trying to replicate Matt's experiment it crashed SONAR twice. So I repeated the exercise using the free Synth 1 synth solo'd in another project. I placed the note at 8.01, then froze the synth. The inspector showed 7.04 exactly as it did for Matt. However, the resulting audio clip starts at exactly 8.01 here. When I unfreeze the synth the inspector shows the clip correctly at 8.01.
Seems it's an error in how the inspector reports frozen clips.




I don't usually use TTS-1 either, but I used that as an example because I figured that it would be a synth that everyone here has at their disposal if they were inclined to test the issue. No idea why it should crash your system.
 
I hadn't considered that the inspector might be misleading me, but I just checked on other projects and it would seem that whatever the inspector says is wherever the frozen clip actually is on the timeline - most often at :005 or :006 rather than the :001 where the first event of the midi clip is, so it seems that the clip info in the inspector is representing the actual position of the clip properly, it's just that the clip isn't quite where it should be.
2017/08/13 17:58:40
paulo
Keni
Does the frozen audio sound correct? The clip itself may start early based on a number of factors, but the events should be the same as the triggered midi/audio.

To make track importing (into other DAWs) i often extend the first clip all the way to zero. Some synths seem to render beginning exactly on the first event while others render begins a bit of time before the first event?



Mostly they're not out enough to sound particularly bad, thoug I have had some that were. I first noticed the differences when editing and moving clips around that they weren't exactly the same as the midi clip and thought that was odd. To my logic, if the midi clip starts at 16:01:001 that's where it should be putting the start of the frozen clip.
2017/08/13 18:00:20
paulo
...wicked
Well that's what, one tick of time? I'd try zooming in and see if there's any audio there. The clip might have a 1-tick lead in before signal actually occurs.




As far as I can tell from zooming in there is no lead in.
2017/08/13 18:08:06
paulo
Keni
Yes Brando...
 
I was responding to the OP...
 
He specifies where the clip is early, but not the actual event and as he notes, the ends vary based on the sound's release regardless of MIDI value...
 
I frequently see differences in frozen audio clip start times that vary synth to synth...




Looking at the waveform the audio in the frozen clip is right at the beginning. It's a small amount to be out, but I  just though it odd that anything would be rendered as starting earlier than the first event, by any amount. 
 
I'm also pretty sure that this didn't used to happen and my hardware set up has been the same for years, only the version of sonar has changed.
2017/08/14 17:44:13
paulo
In case anyone is still reading, this misalignment issue only occurs in platinum. 
 
In X3e Pro using the same freeze test as above the frozen clip is exactly where the midi clip is, which is good in the sense that it means that I'm not going mad and it hasn't always done this, but bad in the sense that yet another thing that used to work properly is broken in Plat.
 
Sigh. 
 
 
 
2017/08/14 17:44:23
paulo
* Dupe *
 
 
2017/08/14 17:44:48
paulo
* And again *
 

 
 
2017/08/14 18:06:16
Brando
I'm not seeing this in Platinum. Are you sure you haven't got an erroneous setting in your driver settings for "Use ASIO Reported Latency"?
Are your settings the same between X3 and SPlat?
2017/08/14 18:10:28
Brando
The other thought is whether you might have one or more plugins in your fx bin in SPlat when you are freezing?
Also because it's not happening here, have you tried it in a fresh project to see if it's project dependent?
2017/08/14 19:12:51
paulo
Thanks Brando for sticking with me.
 
Same hardware and settings (WDM not ASIO FWIW). The test scenario was a new Plat project with only one synth and no other plug-ins at all, so it isn't fx bin related. Msorrels duplicated the test (post #5) and had the same result, so it's not just me. As I said, I did exactly the same test today in X3 and it doesn't happen.
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