• SONAR
  • Sonar really needs a sampler. (p.23)
2016/10/26 23:22:23
Vastman
What I think is this never ending thread blathering the same thing over and over and over again is what's a "bit much"...
 
218 replies, 8 pages... blah blah blah blah... everything's been said dozens of times... Rancor?  Pushback?
 
Heathy debate?  read the thread...  it's been had... let it go... OY!
2016/10/26 23:32:39
Anderton
I dunno, I'd like to think I gave some interesting insights into the state of the global EDM market, software, and the mechanics of market share in this industry. I don't think any of those points were raised previously.
2016/10/26 23:42:56
telecharge
Vastman seems to be sensitive to any criticism of Cakewalk. He's loyal to the "core." Pun intended.
 
Again, Mr. Anderton, we're not talking about "reinventing the wheel." Cakewalk has plenty of existing code and IP.
2016/10/27 00:00:21
telecharge
Sorry, but I have to speak to this as well. When did EDM and Sampler get married? The Hip-Hop genre was damn near founded on sampling.
 
Eric B. Is President. (I wish.)
2016/10/27 00:31:10
AT
Those are some interesting stats, Mr. Anderton.  Geez, it is almost like someone is doing market research so they can intelligently put money into a product and want the best utilization of their investment.  Who would have thunk?
2016/10/27 00:38:07
telecharge
AT
Those are some interesting stats, Mr. Anderton.  Geez, it is almost like someone is doing market research so they can intelligently put money into a product and want the best utilization of their investment.  Who would have thunk?




Touché. I know I've spent more money on Cakewalk than any other developer of music making software -- by a pretty decent margin, too.
2016/10/27 01:46:02
Vastman
 
I personally don't give a hoot what daw people use, tele...I was using cubase/logic before u were likely born and as many astute folks have said, a DAW is a personal thing and all can be improved... I just think you've run this issue into the dirt and keep saying the same thing, taking offense at other perspectives. I don't consider the sampler issue worthy of this perpetual rant that's all... I'd be saying the same thing on the S1/3 forum if there were 8 pages complaining over and over about the lack of a wavetable synth.  There are many criticisms that can be made about any daw...I've complained about the lack of track templates over at the Studio 1 forum...but state my points and don't fill the thread with repeats of the same friggin' point... I can't imagine going on and on and on, especially since there are samplers all over the place...Both u and blades said your point again and again.
 
As far as Sonar goes, the features and ideas forum is full of ideas worth implementing...I've contributed to "criticisms" there (lack of decent arranging tools is my biggest beef and why I got S1/3...)  Maybe the "Features and Ideas" forum is where this post should be... Then people could vote it up or down... 
 
Craig... I was writing my post as u were writing yours... and yea, you made a bunch of awesome/lucid points, as always... 
2016/10/27 02:32:32
bladetragic
Vastman
Maybe the "Features and Ideas" forum is where this post should be... 
 



I made a post there before this thread even got past the first page, b/c I thought this one would be ignored and buried.
2016/10/27 02:46:31
bladetragic
Anderton
telecharge
I'm all for a healthy debate, and I'm not really surprised at the pushback, but the amount of rancor over the suggestion of a basic, integrated sampler seems a bit much.

As to the actual growth of EDM, the global EDM market is now worth 7.1 billion dollars, 60% more than it was only three years ago. It truly has reached the mainstream only relatively recently. However, google search trends show the trend for EDM is flattening and actually declining (at 90% of its peak), whereas pop—a genre for which SONAR has a good fit—has gone up a relative 50% in the past month alone. Long-term, though, bear in mind that EDM is the only genre that has undergone significant growth since 2009.
 
Now, another stat. For 2015, shares of streams by genre in the US was 21% hip-hop, 18% rock, 15% pop, 9% Latin, 5% dance/EDM, and 4% country (with the rest as "other" - classical, jazz, folk, new age, etc.). So if SONAR wants to go after a particular musical genre, rock, pop, hip-hop, and Latin—for all of which SONAR is well-suited—are where the action is, which mirrors other aspects of the market (e.g., CD sales, or rather, what’s left of them). Now, this doesn’t at all negate that EDM has experienced significant growth in the past few years, and continues to do so, particularly internationally in places like Viet Nam, the Philippines, etc. But when you look at it in a totality of all music, it remains a niche—a healthy niche to be sure, and one that can likely support Ableton, FL Studio, and Reason. But can it add significant numbers to SONAR, given how the former three applications are firmly entrenched, and the genre is flattening? IMHO, it’s doubtful at best.



As Telecharge said, somehow this thread got turned into an EDM-centered conversation, when I originally mentioned multiple genres (EDM, Hip-Hop, R&B) that I thought could benefit.  The latter two being where I started and have most of my experience.  I started getting into EDM and experimenting with that world later in my career.  If you feel hip-hop is one of the genres "where the action is" then that would only make me feel even STRONGER about Sonar needing a better sampler, because it's probably even more sample oriented than EDM is. 
 
I am heavily entrenched in the Hip-Hop production world and I've been in and out of all the major music scenes and studios for years now.  LA, ATL, NY, MIA, etc.  Out of hundreds of producers/musicians that I've met in the hip-hop world I literally have encountered only four people who use Sonar for hip-hop.  Two of them stopped making music years ago and moved on to other endeavors.  One whose main gig is actually DJing, and he doesn't really produce anymore either b/c it was more a side gig/hobby for him.  The other is a very serious producer who relies heavily on sampling and just got a gold plaque for production he did on a recent hip-hop album and unfortunately he dropped Sonar years ago for Logic.  I've even judged multiple hip-hop beat battles and asked some of the contestants what programs they use to produce.  I've heard FL, Logic, even Reason twice, but honestly I've never had anyone tell me Sonar.  I also know two VERY successful hip-hop producers (one recently won a Grammy and the other one was nominated a few years back) who recently switched to Studio One.
 
All these things are part of the personal experiences I mentioned earlier in the thread that led me to wonder why electronic based musicians and producers seem to be overlooking Sonar, but will switch to programs like Ableton and Studio One with no problem.  As a matter of fact, I think I'm gonna give him my friend a call and ask him why he chose to leave the Sonar platform.  I'm curious to see what he says.
2016/10/27 08:39:06
dcumpian
telecharge
However, the "best in class" plug-ins are still too expensive for your average hobbyist/enthusiast/amateur.



I completely disagree. Even the best plugins are far cheaper than a decent guitar or keyboard would be. If you are serious about your hobby, you have to pony up. You don't have to buy them all, for god's sake. So many do exactly the same thing in slightly different ways. Just learn how to do what you want and then buy the "best in class" that does what you want.
 
Regards,
Dan
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