bladetragic

JoseC.

Well, Ableton Live still has the same proprietary instruments since it started, an nobody seems to complain. Some of them are even licensed from other vendors (AAS). They are improving Simpler, that is not new AFAIK, and making its integration with Push a selling point for the software. And let's not start about Reason :)

In this case the Ableton equivalent to Cyclone would be Drum Racks I guess, and to be completely honest Cyclone is not even in the same ballpark when it comes to functionality, workflow, and flexibility.  And the fact that they are actively improving Simpler is part of the point.  Cyclone and/or Dropzone are NOT being improved upon or updated with new functionality.  Many here, including myself, have said that an updated/improved version of Cyclone or Dropzone would probably suffice rather than Cakewalk developing something totally new.
 

Actually, I am one those agreeing with you on that. My point is precisely that most DAW's core instruments are already pretty old, so Cyclone being 15 years already (am I really this old?) should not be a reason not to update it, and Dropzone, and integrate them tighter with the program, as Ableton did with Simpler.

JoseC.

bladetragic

JoseC.

Well, Ableton Live still has the same proprietary instruments since it started, an nobody seems to complain. Some of them are even licensed from other vendors (AAS). They are improving Simpler, that is not new AFAIK, and making its integration with Push a selling point for the software. And let's not start about Reason :)

In this case the Ableton equivalent to Cyclone would be Drum Racks I guess, and to be completely honest Cyclone is not even in the same ballpark when it comes to functionality, workflow, and flexibility.  And the fact that they are actively improving Simpler is part of the point.  Cyclone and/or Dropzone are NOT being improved upon or updated with new functionality.  Many here, including myself, have said that an updated/improved version of Cyclone or Dropzone would probably suffice rather than Cakewalk developing something totally new.
 

Actually, I am one those agreeing with you on that. My point is precisely that most DAW's core instruments are already pretty old, so Cyclone being 15 years already (am I really this old?) should not be a reason not to update it, and Dropzone, and integrate them tighter with the program, as Ableton did with Simpler.

Ah ok. Gotcha.

mettelus
My ultimate concern with the "right now" mentality is that it comes across as the final answer, i.e., this whole thread will get swept under the rug and forgotten. If the same level of effort was put into upgrades as finding excuses that they were not needed or already exist, it would double the progress.

No one in this thread, whether they find the existing situation acceptable or not, is involved with creating upgrades. The existence of this thread will neither propel nor inhibit progress. Meanwhile, I've provided an alternative for those who weren't aware that Cyclone, despite its age, provides much if not most of what people say they want. What else is there to say?

telecharge

ampfixer
Although this is a very big thread, it seems to me that there are only half a dozen really active participants. At the end of the day it's comes down to another case of attack and defend, just like most other big threads. 
 
I think Cakewalk is going to do what they want, when they want. You can't run a company based on the wishes of a small sample of customers. People that hang out here and post regularly are not the norm, they're the exception. 

bramwell
I think I see a dead horse a few miles down the road...right next to the staff view.

That's a lot of speculation. This thread had fallen to the 2nd page of the Sonar forum with Bruce's (tenfoot) last post.
 
Guess who bumped it?

That would be abacab about 19 hours ago. 

ampfixer
Although this is a very big thread, it seems to me that there are only half a dozen really active participants. At the end of the day it's comes down to another case of attack and defend, just like most other big threads. 
 

I think it's more about some people making a case for what they want, and other people making a case for what they want, which are features that don't relate to what the first group wants. In other words it's about competing for resources...like most wars .
 
This is why I try to provide solutions that can take care of the first group without taking anything away from the second group. But then the first group gets upset because I'm not providing the answer they want ("Here's a brand new instrument that does exactly what you want"), but an answer that I think is actually relevant ("Here's how to use the existing tools to do most, if not all, of what you want.") So the first group sees me as a Cakewalk apologist instead of a creative user who knows the program's nooks and crannies, and the second group doesn't care about a solution anyway.
 
I might feel more passionate about a new instrument if I found SONAR's tools overly limiting for EDM. Given a choice, though, I'd rather see resources put into developing the Matrix View than updating Cyclone. Meanwhile, this thread has presented multiple alternatives, from a free sampler, to my (also free) tip of the week, to various other Cakewalk instruments, to Geist. 

Hello Craig ,
 
I mean this with  Mucho Grande respect and admiration towards you....
When you want to be, you can certainly be just as slippery as the game winning quarter back in The Superbowl  ...
 
Kenny
 

I see all sides, and I see merit in all of it. The main issue is there is rarely "right" or "wrong" in the sense of a binary 1 and 0. This is an analog world with nuances and shades of gray.
 
Ultimately decisions often must be based on what's "least wrong" or "most right," not what's ideal. As far as I can tell, "ideal" does not exist.
 
I think people often forget that anything that is added to SONAR means something else will not be added concurrently. It's just that simple. So it's easy to understand why some people would get upset if what's being asked for is already available through other means, just as it's easy to understand why some people feel so strongly about something that they think it is of vital importance.
 
Both are wrong, both are right but that's not what interests me. What interests me is solutions that can be done today, because deadlines for projects don't happen in the abstract...they have dates attached to them.

After watching this debate for three weeks, I think both sides have made good points.  But as to my personal preference, I think that I will be satisfied to see the Sonar development focus on the genre neutral core platform.  I see Sonar as a great "host", where you can add whatever plugins that you need to do your musical genre thing.
 
I am old enough to remember the Beatles arrival in America and their appearance on the Ed Sullivan Show.  My parents reaction was "Oh my, this is the end of Western Civilization!".  My Dad was a professional musician in the "big band" tradition.  The world was changing then, and it still is.  I was determined then to become open minded and respect all musical forms.
 
I just want to see music technology enable all forms of musical creativity.  I think we have a good core to work with.  It will be interesting to see what the bakers come up with ...

One of the frustrations I have had with this forum is that there are few who really get it when it comes to how workflow with samples is a bigger chore than it had to be. Hate to compare competing products, but i was able to do what i have always wanted to do within minutes of using studio one. The sampler is no competition to kontakt or other third party solutions, but it is well integrated. I can take a sample, chop it and select "send to sample one " and it is mapped instantly. Using Rapture as a sampler is clunky af. In Sonar I use third party solutions but not nearly as effecient as other programs. It is easy to dismiss us by saying " just use another program", but we obviously love sonar or we wouldn't ask. I'm not mad. I realise having it all is a challenge. I just think cakewalk could accommodate such a request and it would be useful for other tasks.

Nothing beats NI Kontakt my eyes. There's a few others out there though. Kontakt seems to good support though.