• Coffee House
  • Why are keys on sheet music site not consistenat (p.2)
2015/06/01 07:47:18
Guitarhacker
robert_e_bone
Sheet music and midi files have ALWAYS been notorious at having incorrect and widely variable attempts at representing popular songs.
When I was 7-8 and taking piano lessons, I would buy sheet music for a pop song, and want to learn to play it, but what they printed on the sheet music wasn't even close to how I KNEW the song actually went - I had a good ear.  I used to fight with the teacher all the time, because I would use the sheet music largely to get a general sense of the chords, but would tailor my playing of the song to better match what I could hear from the actual recording of the song.
Bob Bone



 
Man is that ever the case!   I used to do the very same thing. Buy the sheet music to a popular song I liked and work it up on piano and have my piano teacher review it.  Often she would play it as written, to show me what it really sounded like. I'd tell her she didn't play it right....which led to some interesting discussions. I would rarely learn it like it was written and she would sit there tisking and shaking her head as I "butchered" the written version with the music I knew to be right from my memory.  
 
I still have a bunch of sheet music from the 60's.... Cost me 25 cents in many cases..... wonder what they're worth today? I had actually considered framing some up as art and hanging them on the walls.
2015/06/01 08:52:51
Beagle
Guitarhacker
robert_e_bone
Sheet music and midi files have ALWAYS been notorious at having incorrect and widely variable attempts at representing popular songs.
When I was 7-8 and taking piano lessons, I would buy sheet music for a pop song, and want to learn to play it, but what they printed on the sheet music wasn't even close to how I KNEW the song actually went - I had a good ear.  I used to fight with the teacher all the time, because I would use the sheet music largely to get a general sense of the chords, but would tailor my playing of the song to better match what I could hear from the actual recording of the song.
Bob Bone



 
Man is that ever the case!   I used to do the very same thing. Buy the sheet music to a popular song I liked and work it up on piano and have my piano teacher review it.  Often she would play it as written, to show me what it really sounded like. I'd tell her she didn't play it right....which led to some interesting discussions. I would rarely learn it like it was written and she would sit there tisking and shaking her head as I "butchered" the written version with the music I knew to be right from my memory.  
 
I still have a bunch of sheet music from the 60's.... Cost me 25 cents in many cases..... wonder what they're worth today? I had actually considered framing some up as art and hanging them on the walls.


I have thousands of sheets of sheet music because of needing them for church band and praise teams.  My wife takes old ones that I have discarded and uses them to cover small trash cans, small tables, etc with decoupage.
 
In my studio I have a trash can with sheet music decoupage and in her office she has a small writing table and a trash can.  We've also given these as gifts to music teachers, professionals, etc.
2015/06/04 10:21:20
Moshkito
Hi,
 
Beagle ... we need to repost the PDQ Bach scores now, and of course the corresponding TAB sheets.
 
They are somewhere in the annals of the Coffee Hokum and if not I'll try to dig them up if I have them!
2015/06/04 10:57:40
craigb
Moshkito
Hi,
 
Beagle ... we need to repost the PDQ Bach scores now, and of course the corresponding TAB sheets.
 
They are somewhere in the annals of the Coffee Hokum and if not I'll try to dig them up if I have them!





 
Found one!
(Note:  Works for the alphabet song too!  )
 
2015/06/04 13:51:14
Moshkito
Hi,
 
This is what I meant
 
 
http://www.schickele.com/shoppe/tshirts.htm
 
 This is one of the pictures I posted once here on the CHB ... I think I had about 6 or 8 scores listed here including the other famous one where all the railroad trax cross each other! Excuse me ... staff trax or whatever they are called!
 
2015/06/04 14:37:59
UbiquitousBubba
Sheet Music: Definition
n
1. (Music, other) the printed or written copy of a short composition or piece, esp in the form of unbound leaves
2. (Music, other) music in its written or printed form
3. (Music, other) common excuse given by keyboardists who aren't willing to play anything the guitarist might know
4. (Music, other) the second highest cause of Drummer's Rage, a potentially life threatening issue. The primary cause is endless tuning.
2015/06/04 17:47:20
craigb
Kamikaze

Why are keys on sheet music site not consistenat [sic]




Because there are so many different locks. 
 
(Duh.)
2015/06/05 15:02:10
dubdisciple
There are many reasons that songs are sometimes transposed into different keys. The key that worked well for the original played by an entire band /orchestra may not work as well for a solo piano/guitar.  That can also work kind of in reverse as well.  Sometimes songs are created in one key to accommodate instruments with limited range.  i once re-wrote a song because I wanted to use a fixed key instrument. 
2015/06/05 16:39:08
Beepster
Methinks, mayhaps, you expect too much from our beloved intertubes (and transcribers in general as well). I always take online tabs/sheet music (and even professionally released transcriptions sold at a premium) as mere guidelines that are useful in possibly pointing me in the right direction of how something is played... but never fully accurate.
 
I have much more success at being accurate learning things by ear. If something isn't sitting right then I'll see what is available as far as transcriptions and they may (or may not) give me some ideas as to what I may be doing wrong.
 
What is REALLY helpful to me is live recordings though because generally the performance is raw so you can hear what is being played as opposed to what has been edited/mixed into a dull roar. Video of a live performance can sometimes give a clue to where my hands should be. I have now discovered a neato little tool in GR5 (the Tape Deck thingie) that allows me to slow down recordings easily without changing pitch so I can pluck out notes of very fast solos which is cool.
 
Then I can go back with all my new found data input and reprocess what I'm hearing and cobble together a better representation of what is going on.
 
The one thing to realize too is that often times different renditions are being transcribed or there are alternate tunings in play which screw up the transcriber.
 
Many online transcriptions are contributed to sites by... well I won't say amateurs but they are just uploading their interpretations for whatever reason (which is why the sites that publish them have rating systems). The pro stuff you buy in the music store is obvioulsy much more accurate but I gave up on that stuff ages ago because really there is still a lot of innacuracy as far as HOW stuff is played (because unless the actual artist is there to show them exactly how they played it the trascriber will interpretet it how THEY would paly it) and those darned things are bleeding expensive (also it's paper which is a PITA to lug around all the time).
 
Obviously piano leaves a lot less up to interpretation than guitar (you can't play the same exact note in multiple places) but on paper there can be lots of variables based on the human producing the paper.
 
Yanno?
2015/06/05 18:02:05
TheMaartian
KamikazeThis is an simple 80's pop song, it should clear what key it's in and if it a a major chord or a suspended chord with an altered route. It's not a complex song. Someone looking to buy this is looking to buy how the song was composed. There is no consistence from the same music provider.
 
If I was looking to play a jazz standard, I'd want the standard chord progression. I may alter the voicings and extensions to inject my own personality into it, but I want the standard to start from.

That's exactly what I'd want to, except I don't, and the reason is...the 'r' word...reality. Or, in this case, more specifically, copyright law.
 
For example, if someone were to sell you a MIDI file (and perhaps point you to a soundfont for your playback synth of choice) that EXACTLY reproduced the song as released by the original artist(s), they would be in violation of copyright law, should that piece be copyrighted. Except for Falco and a few other oopses, most are. Dude, why didn't you copyright "Der Kommissar"? Alles klar? Nein!.
 
That is, also for example, why you don't find strumming patterns with most tabs (all free tabs?). That's "how" to play the song.
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