Mesh
Money IS the root of all evil.....lol.

Now don't misquote the Bible Mesh or Beagle may bite you!   Money is a GOOD thing.  The correct scripture (1 Timothy 6:10 I believe) is "For the love of money is the root of all evil."  Money is like blood in a body, it must flow.

craigb

Mesh
Money IS the root of all evil.....lol.

Now don't misquote the Bible Mesh or Beagle may bite you!   Money is a GOOD thing.  The correct scripture (1 Timothy 6:10 I believe) is "For the love of money is the root of all evil."  Money is like blood in a body, it must flow.

I'm impressed!

Beagle

dubdisciple
 

tbosco
It seems that the more socially useless a job is in America, the more we are willing to compensate (pay) for that position, and it makes me want to vomit.  We value (pay) a foreign baseball player $25,000,00 a year to hit a ball and run around some bases several times a year, and there is absolutely no socially redeeming value to this event.  And yet we pay our teachers a measly $30,000 a year, hardly enough to survive, and their job is to (try to) make our children into tomorrow's leaders and to be well educated.  I think that's one of the most important things we can do in society.  Same goes for police protection.  How many folks are willing to be thrust into the dangers that they see for $25,000 a year??  Not me!
Jenner and Kardashian may be INTERESTING (to some people) albeit, but VALUEABLE to society?  Hardly!!  Just shows you how warped our American values have become.  *sigh*

 
Maybe it's the philosophy major in me, but I agree to disagree on such thoughts.  Not hat i am a fan of the kardashians.  Reality tv is stupid to me but does not upset me. I'm sort of a pragmatist , so as nice as paying teachers more sounds, the truth is teaching pays higher for a bachelor degree than most entry level jobs one can get with just a BA and no specific training. Anyone, without being tought hotw to actually teach, can become a teacher wit ha 4 year degree in any subject. A baseball player does not make millions because he is contributing to society but because people are willing to pay for the things that make his salary possible.  The moment tax payers are willing to pay up to thousands per seat to watch people teach will be the day teachers make similar salaries.  Also the teachers are underpaid mantra assumes that all or most teachers are actually good teachers. Unfortunately many teachers on a pre college level are there as a means to relieve student loans and hate teaching. i didn't learn **** from my actual teachers.  i had one high school teacher who said he go paid whether i showed up to class or not.  I had some outstanding teachers but the average was just that. the average teacher in our school district gets paid 42,000 for 9 months work and our district is average at best. As for police. I'm sure if you feel protected by police you probably do feel they deserve more. For those of us who grew up in areas with corrupt police forces, paying them more is the last thing on our minds. To me that is a wash.  The values thing i find hilarious (no offense meant).  Our values are no more warped then when we thought it was ok to own people, whorehoueses were legal, cocaine was seen as a cure all and in coca cola and other projects, it was ok to employ kids in coal mines, it was legal to rape your wife and so on. Any period in history has it's share of questionable morality. yes, the kardashians and our culture's obsession with celebrities is silly, but on the scale of horrible things in our history, it is hardly a sign our "values" are more warped.

I agree with you on most of your points, but as a "Devil's Advocate" I'd like to consider this:
first, it may be that our society is still immoral enough in the sense that they don't want teachers or police to be paid more.  if our society were to put enough emphasis on a better system (more training, better requirements, better checks and balances) then higher pay for them would naturally follow.
 
also, I understand there are corrupt cops and as in your case you lived in an area where they were prominent.  but suppose we had a better system in place and did pay them more - wouldn't that be a way that the system would balance it self better so that there would be fewer corrupt cops?
 
and finally - not really a "Devil's Advocate" kind of thing, but I do agree with you that it is our socio-economic system which supports paying sports players insane amounts of money.  we've done it ever since the inception of televised sports and the amounts they are paid continue to grow as the years go by.  my problem with that is I disagree with our society, which I understand puts me in the minority regarding how sports players are paid.  I would like to see more of a balanced system there as well, but that will likely never happen unless our economy collapses, which of course, I don't want that either.  guess I can't be pleased! ;-)

Like you, there are lots of things I would love changed, but I think we both get that such changes would likely have a cost ( like the collapse of our economy). Every culture I can think of where police are excessively paid relative to the general population  is some form of police state/dictatorship. I did not want to come off as police bashing. Was just pointing out that police are not seen the same way universally. At the end of the day it does come down to money. Kardashians exist as a cultural entity because iit generates buttloads of money. Paying teachers, police or any other collective work force deemed more important by most would ironically create an economic drain on society since there would be no corresponding increase in available funds to pay them. Even if big money sports and useless celebrities disapeared the money generated by society willing to support such things would not get redistributed because it would not exist. I think the solution is to declare myself emperor of the world and unite everyone under the common cause of serving me!!!

dubdisciple

Beagle

dubdisciple
 

tbosco
It seems that the more socially useless a job is in America, the more we are willing to compensate (pay) for that position, and it makes me want to vomit.  We value (pay) a foreign baseball player $25,000,00 a year to hit a ball and run around some bases several times a year, and there is absolutely no socially redeeming value to this event.  And yet we pay our teachers a measly $30,000 a year, hardly enough to survive, and their job is to (try to) make our children into tomorrow's leaders and to be well educated.  I think that's one of the most important things we can do in society.  Same goes for police protection.  How many folks are willing to be thrust into the dangers that they see for $25,000 a year??  Not me!
Jenner and Kardashian may be INTERESTING (to some people) albeit, but VALUEABLE to society?  Hardly!!  Just shows you how warped our American values have become.  *sigh*

 
Maybe it's the philosophy major in me, but I agree to disagree on such thoughts.  Not hat i am a fan of the kardashians.  Reality tv is stupid to me but does not upset me. I'm sort of a pragmatist , so as nice as paying teachers more sounds, the truth is teaching pays higher for a bachelor degree than most entry level jobs one can get with just a BA and no specific training. Anyone, without being tought hotw to actually teach, can become a teacher wit ha 4 year degree in any subject. A baseball player does not make millions because he is contributing to society but because people are willing to pay for the things that make his salary possible.  The moment tax payers are willing to pay up to thousands per seat to watch people teach will be the day teachers make similar salaries.  Also the teachers are underpaid mantra assumes that all or most teachers are actually good teachers. Unfortunately many teachers on a pre college level are there as a means to relieve student loans and hate teaching. i didn't learn **** from my actual teachers.  i had one high school teacher who said he go paid whether i showed up to class or not.  I had some outstanding teachers but the average was just that. the average teacher in our school district gets paid 42,000 for 9 months work and our district is average at best. As for police. I'm sure if you feel protected by police you probably do feel they deserve more. For those of us who grew up in areas with corrupt police forces, paying them more is the last thing on our minds. To me that is a wash.  The values thing i find hilarious (no offense meant).  Our values are no more warped then when we thought it was ok to own people, whorehoueses were legal, cocaine was seen as a cure all and in coca cola and other projects, it was ok to employ kids in coal mines, it was legal to rape your wife and so on. Any period in history has it's share of questionable morality. yes, the kardashians and our culture's obsession with celebrities is silly, but on the scale of horrible things in our history, it is hardly a sign our "values" are more warped.

I agree with you on most of your points, but as a "Devil's Advocate" I'd like to consider this:
first, it may be that our society is still immoral enough in the sense that they don't want teachers or police to be paid more.  if our society were to put enough emphasis on a better system (more training, better requirements, better checks and balances) then higher pay for them would naturally follow.
 
also, I understand there are corrupt cops and as in your case you lived in an area where they were prominent.  but suppose we had a better system in place and did pay them more - wouldn't that be a way that the system would balance it self better so that there would be fewer corrupt cops?
 
and finally - not really a "Devil's Advocate" kind of thing, but I do agree with you that it is our socio-economic system which supports paying sports players insane amounts of money.  we've done it ever since the inception of televised sports and the amounts they are paid continue to grow as the years go by.  my problem with that is I disagree with our society, which I understand puts me in the minority regarding how sports players are paid.  I would like to see more of a balanced system there as well, but that will likely never happen unless our economy collapses, which of course, I don't want that either.  guess I can't be pleased! ;-)

Like you, there are lots of things I woukd love changed, but I think we both get that such changes would likely have a cost ( like the collapse of our economy). Every culture I can think of where police are excessively paid relative to the general population  is some form of police state/dictatorship. I did not want to come off as police bashing. Was just pointing out that police are not seen the same way universally. At the end of the day it does come down to money. Kardashians exist as a cultural entity because iit generates buttloads of money. Paying teachers, police or any other collective work force deemed more important by most would ironically create an economic drain on society since there would be no corresponding increase in available funds to pay them. Even if bug money sports and useless celebrities disapeared the money generated by society willing to support such things would not get redistributed because it would not exist. I think the solution is to declare myself emperor of the world and unite everyone under the common cause of serving me!!!

dubdisciple
 I think the solution is to declare myself emperor of the world and unite everyone under the common cause of serving me!!!

I can declare you emperor. I have that power.

jamesg1213

Bert Guy
I havn't watched a nanosecond of prime time entertainment TV (sitcoms and dramas) for several decades

Bert, you've missed some very good stuff.

James, I have no doubt about that. But I have this problem with watching TV shows; it doesn't matter how good or bad a show is, if I watch the first five minutes, I have to watch the rest of the show to see what happens. I've learned the hard way not to turn on the programs. And if I hear about something really good (Seinfeld),there is always DVR.
 
Cheers,
 
Bert

bapu

dubdisciple
 I think the solution is to declare myself emperor of the world and unite everyone under the common cause of serving me!!!

I can declare you emperor. I have that power.

Shame on you for not using your powers sooner. You could have all been serving my selfish whims long ago!