tom1
AFAIK we're the only first-world country with a for-profit health care system.

Coming from Quebec, Canada, w/ proper insurances, I'll take the US health care system any day before what we had up there. That's one of those things where you get what you pay for. In terms of simple diagnosis, they seemed to miss the mark 9 time out of 10. I'll let you guess what it means when it comes to treatment...
 
I am not convinced that GMO are as bad as they're made to be be, even though I tend to buy non-GMO, because the taste is usually far superior.
 
At least, we have the option.
 
 
 

Rain:
I am not convinced that GMO are as bad as they're made to be be, even though I tend to buy non-GMO, because the taste is usually far superior.
At least, we have the option.
 
 
 
That's just it, Rain we do not have the option.

Yes, some food products are now voluntarily being labeled as non GMO, which is a good sign, but Monsanto Corporation has heavily financed the anti-GMO labeling campaign and has thwarted (with their political influence) every attempt for mandatory GMO labeling.

Monsanto made it's fortune selling pesticides and the infamous 'agent orange' used throughout the Vietnam War.
Monsanto being involved in the GMO industry is scary in and of itself.

tom1
Rain:
I am not convinced that GMO are as bad as they're made to be be, even though I tend to buy non-GMO, because the taste is usually far superior.
At least, we have the option.
 
 
 
That's just it, Rain we do not have the option.

Yes, some food products are now voluntarily being labeled as non GMO, which is a good sign, but Monsanto Corporation has heavily financed the anti-GMO labeling campaign and has thwarted (with their political influence) every attempt for mandatory GMO labeling.

Monsanto made it's fortune selling pesticides and the infamous 'agent orange' used throughout the Vietnam War.
Monsanto being involved in the GMO industry is scary in and of itself.

I know, and just for the record, I'm not saying that we do not need a counter-weight - it is a constant struggle, and I'm 100% for mandatory, clear product labelling.
 
That being said, I grew up on industrial white bread, margarine, Kraft peanut butter, and Tang "orange juice". Hydrogenated oil, shortening, and the likes... I still prefer my 2015 options to what we had in the 70s and 80s, even though we MUST fight for clear labels.
 

Rain

tom1
AFAIK we're the only first-world country with a for-profit health care system.

Coming from Quebec, Canada, w/ proper insurances, I'll take the US health care system any day before what we had up there. That's one of those things where you get what you pay for. In terms of simple diagnosis, they seemed to miss the mark 9 time out of 10. I'll let you guess what it means when it comes to treatment...
 
I am not convinced that GMO are as bad as they're made to be be, even though I tend to buy non-GMO, because the taste is usually far superior.
 
At least, we have the option.
 

Certainly our HC system is being eroded by those who have a vested interest in making people so angry they actually support abolitioning it in favor of a for profit system and certainly if you have money in the US you'll likley get better care...
 
However healthcare is administered by the provinces and Quebec... well, doesn't have the greatest reputation for proper distribution of funds. I love QC with all my heart and my visits there are some of my most cherished memories but I do not think I could ever live there because it is just so crazy and corrupt.
 
ON (and anywhere really) is quite corrupt as well but the healthcare system is pretty darned good all things considered. You kind of have to live in an urban center but even if you don't it's easy enough to get referred to where the docs are. The big problem is the wait times and the "brain drain" (where our mediacl talent pool gets their education here then move to the US for the big bucks), both of which are due to underfunding and mismanagement of funds.
 
Personally I would be TOTALLY fuxxored if it weren't for our system. Probably hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt by now and WAY more coming down the pipe very soon.
 
Anyway, you may have been watching some of the corruption trials going on in QC the past few years. I'm hoping that perhaps now that these things are finally being talked about that the people of Quebec will finally get a larger chunk of what is pumped into the province (by the feds and it's own people) by way of the fundemental services those funds are supposed to be for in the first place.
 
Ontario is boring as hell and filled with stick up the butt whingers but this also creates an environment where if there is something hinkey going on it generally gets exposed much quicker than other places. This seems to translate into reasonably efficient services and less waste/graft.
 
The real problem around here is epicly hateful people who seem to love punishing others even if it hurts themselves.
 
Meh.

Beepster
 
 
Certainly our HC system is being eroded by those who have a vested interest in making people so angry they actually support abolitioning it in favor of a for profit system and certainly if you have money in the US you'll likley get better care...
 
However healthcare is administered by the provinces and Quebec... well, doesn't have the greatest reputation for proper distribution of funds. I love QC with all my heart and my visits there are some of my most cherished memories but I do not think I could ever live there because it is just so crazy and corrupt.
 
ON (and anywhere really) is quite corrupt as well but the healthcare system is pretty darned good all things considered. You kind of have to live in an urban center but even if you don't it's easy enough to get referred to where the docs are. The big problem is the wait times and the "brain drain" (where our mediacl talent pool gets their education here then move to the US for the big bucks), both of which are due to underfunding and mismanagement of funds.
 
Personally I would be TOTALLY fuxxored if it weren't for our system. Probably hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt by now and WAY more coming down the pipe very soon.
 
Anyway, you may have been watching some of the corruption trials going on in QC the past few years. I'm hoping that perhaps now that these things are finally being talked about that the people of Quebec will finally get a larger chunk of what is pumped into the province (by the feds and it's own people) by way of the fundemental services those funds are supposed to be for in the first place.
 
Ontario is boring as hell and filled with stick up the butt whingers but this also creates an environment where if there is something hinkey going on it generally gets exposed much quicker than other places. This seems to translate into reasonably efficient services and less waste/graft.
 
The real problem around here is epicly hateful people who seem to love punishing others even if it hurts themselves.
 
Meh.

I remember a few years ago, Sun (IIRC) reported that Quebec was the most corrupted province in Canada. Obviously, this was perceived as Quebec-bashing by Quebecers... 
 
I couldn't say about Ontario or the rest of Canada because I haven't been there. I'm sure glad to read that it's actually better than Quebec, though it does not entirely surprise me, because Quebec is... well, Quebec. The Ol' Communist Country, as I like to call it... :P
 
Certainly, my current stance has a lot to do with having spent most of my life in such an environment, and the endless list of medical errors and/or lack of diagnosis I've been through and saw relatives go through.
 
 

Monsanto and DuPont are the two most evil companies in existence. I cannot talk about government...
 
 

Rain

Beepster
 
 
Certainly our HC system is being eroded by those who have a vested interest in making people so angry they actually support abolitioning it in favor of a for profit system and certainly if you have money in the US you'll likley get better care...
 
However healthcare is administered by the provinces and Quebec... well, doesn't have the greatest reputation for proper distribution of funds. I love QC with all my heart and my visits there are some of my most cherished memories but I do not think I could ever live there because it is just so crazy and corrupt.
 
ON (and anywhere really) is quite corrupt as well but the healthcare system is pretty darned good all things considered. You kind of have to live in an urban center but even if you don't it's easy enough to get referred to where the docs are. The big problem is the wait times and the "brain drain" (where our mediacl talent pool gets their education here then move to the US for the big bucks), both of which are due to underfunding and mismanagement of funds.
 
Personally I would be TOTALLY fuxxored if it weren't for our system. Probably hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt by now and WAY more coming down the pipe very soon.
 
Anyway, you may have been watching some of the corruption trials going on in QC the past few years. I'm hoping that perhaps now that these things are finally being talked about that the people of Quebec will finally get a larger chunk of what is pumped into the province (by the feds and it's own people) by way of the fundemental services those funds are supposed to be for in the first place.
 
Ontario is boring as hell and filled with stick up the butt whingers but this also creates an environment where if there is something hinkey going on it generally gets exposed much quicker than other places. This seems to translate into reasonably efficient services and less waste/graft.
 
The real problem around here is epicly hateful people who seem to love punishing others even if it hurts themselves.
 
Meh.

I remember a few years ago, Sun (IIRC) reported that Quebec was the most corrupted province in Canada. Obviously, this was perceived as Quebec-bashing by Quebecers... 
 
I couldn't say about Ontario or the rest of Canada because I haven't been there. I'm sure glad to read that it's actually better than Quebec, though it does not entirely surprise me, because Quebec is... well, Quebec. The Ol' Communist Country, as I like to call it... :P
 
Certainly, my current stance has a lot to do with having spent most of my life in such an environment, and the endless list of medical errors and/or lack of diagnosis I've been through and saw relatives go through.
 
 

I can understand that.  I think this is why i have to make myself step back when it comes to anecdotal tales...even my own.  I had an uncle die because they kept missing a very treatable issue during repeated hospitalizations and finally figured it out too late.  I think that people who grow up in the US tend to get very discouraged at times because the disparity of what is available to wealthy is so vastly different. Even basic screenings are often skipped if they question your ability to pay.  My father made the mistake once of not including his wife's info when he was not well and they released him with a clean bill of health even though he knew something was wrong. When they discovered my stepmother was a CEO, they did a test they skip for most of us and discovered early stage cancer.  Fortunately it was treatable. The average Joe would not even know the test he got existed.  This is not to bash the US, because i am sure that even in places with socialized healthcare there is always going to be a difference in the options available to the rich and the poor.  i think where many US people feel like the grass is greener is the fact that many in US (myself included at points) have not bothered going to doctor at all or filling prescriptions because it often means choosing between a doctor visit and eating.  In most countries you can at least see a doctor, even if it is not the best care it is something.

Socialized healthcare sometimes means that capitalism is applied on a different level.
 
Properly treating an infected cyst = customer swipes that social healthcare card once. 
 
Leaving the cyst and only draining the infection = customer swipes that same card 5 or 6 times, and potentially repeating the whole process a number of times for years to come. $$$
 
 
 
 

There's definitely two sides to every story. I've told the story on here before but it's worth repeating - when I had a melanoma some years ago, I was here in New York and uninsured. Was told I had to have it removed within 6 weeks (preferably a lot sooner) or it could spread to my lymphatic system. Frightened of the cost here, I made inquiries about having it done back home on the NHS for free, and was told that there were no guarantees I could have the surgery within 6 weeks. I might, but then again I might wait 12 weeks, thereby drastically decreasing my chance of survival. So I thought screw it, I'm going to have it done here in New York. When I asked the surgeon how soon I could get it done, he asked me "when are you next free?" And I must say, the hospitals I've had experience with over here have been leaps and bounds ahead of the NHS hospitals I've been in back home. I don't want to knock the NHS too much because there are a lot of great people working damn hard there and doing a fantastic job. But that's part of the problem. Doctors are ferociously overworked in the UK, and it's not good...
 
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/apr/04/patient-care-under-threat-overworked-doctors-miss-signs-expert
 
I think what a lot of people also forget is that more is spent on medical research and development in the US than anywhere else, and that is why the rate of medical innovation is so much higher here. The newspapers in the UK are full of stories about fundraisers for sick kids whose only hope is some revolutionary new treatment being developed in the US, which the NHS refuses to spring for. I don't think I read many stories where the kid was being sent for revolutionary new treatment in some other country. It was almost always the US. 

The following In regards to Health and Corporations:
 
From an Australian perspective this is old news....  30 years ago my sister lost her son 5 due to multi-vaccination shot, after the autopsy it was verified by doctors, coroners report; It was indeed the vaccine and unfortunately a one in a million result that caused his death. If Luke had survived? He would have permanent 'Very Severe' brain damage.  
 
Everything from GERD to cancer and other nasty diseases will continue to reap billions for many corporations involved in everything such as mining, burning coal, fracking, pesticides, petroleum, chemicals. Its in our water, food, cleaning products and in the air. This has been going on for more than 100 years and this trend doesn't appear to be slowing down anytime soon, in fact its been increasing well beyond alarming rates.
 
In recent years many Australians wanted to make vaccinations mandatory! In recent articles (US), people who had the flu vaccination could actually be carriers and therefore infect others who were not vaccinated.  If people get sick (flu) they should not leave home unless they wear a mask and are seeing a doctor. Once recovered they should wait another 7 days before being considered safe. <--- this is the best proceedure in regards to preventative care or preventative transmission of diseases such as the flu..... But oh no, big corporations and shares are involved, they want nothing to do with that.  People can die from the flu and I do know others have permanent damage due to a nasty bout of the flu. These later flu strains are quite nasty, they can cause kidney failure and it can also happen to young health adults.
 
This year my wife and her family (as with past years) they all had vaccination shots and guess what? They all got the flu and as for me? No cold, no flu, I'm clear.  My wife recovered but developed middle ear infection, its as if the same thing occurs every year.  If anyone gets sick (flu), sorry, I strongly believe they should be quarantined for about two weeks.  At all medical centers around here (WI, US) signs are posted everywhere; Wear a Mask (details: if you have symptoms of the cold or flu) and there are also alcohol cleansers.  Anyway, I wish there were 'Disease Sensor systems at all public transport hubs (Airports, buses, trains, taxis) and other common public places, systems that worked like fire alarms.  <--- This would dramatically reduce the risk of spreading diseases, dramatically reduce the number of people fallen ill. But of course... no corporate and their shareholders will want to see billions of dollars wiped from their shares. So anyway, its business $$$ as usual.  Welcome to planet Earth.