2015/03/02 21:49:10
konradh
OK, we are shooting a dance video for one of my songs in a couple of weeks.  I want to make sure I am prepared from an audio standpoint and prepare the videographer.
 
We will shoot dancers for the whole song, although we may stop and start again to ensure they all get it right.  After we have the dancing for the whole song, we will shoot various other scenes, close-ups, dance moves, etc. to edit in.
 
So, if we shoot the video is sections and have multiple takes, how do we sync the music and video later.  I'm not asking for very specific tool command in Final Cut of other software—just conceptually how does this work?  I'd hate to be nudging video clips over and over trying to get them in sync.
 
I have some ideas how this should/could work, but I'd rather hear from people who have done this and know the smartest way to go about it.
 
THANKS!
2015/03/02 21:57:07
StarTekh
After doing time code "SMPTE " for 25 years im going to sit this one out and see how others manage to sync Sonar/Windows.... to video !
2015/03/02 21:58:34
mettelus
I have only worked with video in Premiere Pro which has the ability to align video and audio to markers (including stretching). The program is not something to just "jump into" without intense frustration though. Just FYI really, as I presume others can recommend a better work flow.
2015/03/02 22:07:29
John
Have something like a clapper in a few frames. Anything where you see the sound being made. Do this after every dance. I don't recommend Sonar for this, Vegas is far better suited but it can be done in Sonar.   
2015/03/02 22:14:07
gbarrett
Make sure your sample and bit rates are exactly the same and you shouldn't have any drift issues. Find out what the final master is to be and always work in that format. You'll drive yourself crazy trying to re-sync every few frames.
2015/03/03 00:14:16
dubdisciple
In premiere pro it is fairly simple although, for the beginner it takes a second to get used to premiere pro.  there is a plugin called Plural eyes by red giant that does an even better job and works in multiple video editing programs.  If all else fails, the old fashion clap or other audio clue still works just fine.
2015/03/03 07:23:22
Karyn
Moving to Coffee House.  This is a video editing question... not Sonar.
 
But as you mentioned Final Cut Pro...  it has an automatic multi-cam function that will align multiple video clips to a base audio track. All you need do is ensure the audio is captured by the camera in each clip.  It works very well.
 
Having made it auto-sync all the clips, you can then edit the slow way by looking for good in-out points on each clip, etc,...  or it has a "live" multi-cam editor that will show all the clips tiled and you real time click click click to make cuts as the track plays.  These cuts can then be edited/cleaned up in the usual way, but it makes for very fast multi-cam editing.
 
 
Tip:
When exporting the audio to use for playback...  include some countdown beeps at song tempo before the song starts.  These will act as both a cue for your dancers and also double as a sync reference.   If you leave the beeps running through the song (maybe just include the metronome in the mix) it will help the dancers (depending on the music..)  You replace the playback track with the final mix when you render the final vid.
 
They say a picture is worth a thousand words...
 

2015/03/03 10:52:39
Tom Riggs
I found that plugging in the playback device directly into the camera's mic input really helps get a clear audio in the video.
 
I added count in clicks on the playback as well like Karyn recommended. If I was starting a clip in the middle of the song I just started the recording a few bars early to serve as a count in and help to place the clip in the timeline quicker.
 
I do not have any of the paid software so I just setup the main audio input on a track in Blender. then imported each video clip into a new lane and enabled the waveform view. Then I was able to easily move each clip to it appropriate spot in the timeline.
 
Tip: I discovered as I was lining thing up that it was better if the audio waveform on my video clip was a partial sample ahead of the reference audio. It was usually less than a sample ahead but the same amount behind and there was phasing during playback. Of course I would not have included both from the viewers perspective its better if the video is a tiny bit ahead. Just a tiny bit behind and it gets noticeable pretty quickly.
 
It really went pretty quick but it sure would be nice to have it work automatically.
2015/03/03 16:16:42
konradh
Karyn, Since I don't know if I should do this in Sonar or not, and since I don't know whether or not to edit the music in Sonar somehow for the purposes of syncing, I think this IS a Sonar question.  It's OK that you moved it, but moving it assumes the answer is not about Sonar function which I don't think has been decided.
 
 
2015/03/03 17:33:25
Karyn
ok,  I can see why it would seem confusing to someone that's not done this before.
 
The way it generally works is...  If you're scoring for film/video, in other words adding sound to pre-existing visuals, then Sonar is a great tool to use and this thread should be in either the Sonar forum or Techniques forum.  You take the edited (or partially edited) video, import it into a Sonar project and add sound/music as required to match the video.
 
But,  when shooting a music vid (which is what you say you're going to be doing) you start with the finished (or mostly finished) audio and shoot video to match it which you then edit and sync to the audio using a video editor.  Sonar is not involved once the finish audio has been exported.
 
Here's one I did earlier...  Actually 2 months ago now, but that's earlier, isn't it?
The song was recorded, mixed and rough mastered on Saturday afternoon.  Then all the video was shot single camera on Sunday afternoon, with playback of the audio track in .MP3 from an iPad.  All the video and the final audio track in .WAV was then loaded into Final Cut for editing.
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