ORIGINAL: mildew
here is a song i recently produced - all instruments played by me, song written and sung by db grant.
http://rapidshare.de/files/34431131/4follower.mp3.html

Normally I would stick to constructive critisism.
Normally I wouldn't enter the frey of a troll's dream like this one.
Normally I wouldn't bash another's efforts.

But you've asked for it door knob.

And I feel like having a little fun tonight.

Yeah, I listened. (normally I would take the time to make the positive comments this song might deserve... but not tonight)

And yeah... I can tell you played to a click. Really it sounds like to worshipped the click. Even though the overall feel of the song is hurt badly by the fact that you are FOLLOWING the click. Playing behind, not on purpose though, at least I hope not as it's making the song plod.

Under normal circumstances, I would agree with you about overplaying being a bad thing... but man, you should have just used good drum samples for this track. This is pretty much a drum machine loop with the occasional slightly late note. There is the occasioan small fill which you rush each time...

... wait... seems to me that you rush it exacltly the same way each time too... with the same spash, and sloshy hat pattern after... hrmmm...

You need to get a new head on that snare and tune it. Also set up your overheads or effects to avoid the hollow sound. (oops... I was getting constructive there for a second).

Also, on the roto-toms... take the towels off them, brighten them up with a nice outboard high shelf on the way in, gate them so they are able to be audible without ruining your mix and compress them so they sound like you are hitting them with a stick instead of a marimba mallet. You might be able to make them sound like toms then.

You need to have your guitar intonation checked... or buy a tuner, or get your ears checked.

You either used a pickup on the acoustic, or effected it to sound like you did. Why? Why?

If you are not going to ever take the chorus off the vocal in the song, then at least use some of the stereo field for it so it doesn't sound like that. Same thing with the delay.

Ease up on the click... too much too much.

It is hard for me not to say good things about the song, as I think it deserved some. So I will say that.

Oh and yes. I play drums. And to a click, and you can hear me on the first three songs on this page and the one called Washing Machine... oh, and I am playing keys on much of these too:
http://noisevault.com/studio/samples.html

ORIGINAL: mildew
Accents, ghost notes, application of rudiments etc are the LAST thing a producer wants to hear from a recording drummer. Good tone, simple playing, metronomic and funky at the same time - thats "hit record" drumming.

Accents, ghost notes, application of rudiments = "stop showing off, play for the SONG" - silly drummers..

Tell that to this guy:
http://noisevault.com/studio/dan.html

I can pretty much guarantee if you've turned on the radio, you've heard him. So he might know something about making hit records.

ORIGINAL: mwd

We want our drummers to play to a click track and our drum machines to quantize to a "human feel".... what's wrong with that picture?

haha... I see your point. But nothing is wrong with it at all! :) It's really the same thing. Keep a rock solid tempo but play it (or program it) like you FEEL it.

cAPS

ORIGINAL: bunkaroo

Apparently you're not paying attention. Clicks are a reference. You still play ahead of the beat, behind the beat, etc as needed. Your statement says to me that both are lacking somewhat and need to meet somehwere in the middle.

Bingo... everyone is taking "clicks" too seriously. They are invaluable tools. I've played for 35 years with two awesome drummers and never once asked them to play to a click track no more than they ever asked me to play only major scales. We inject our drummers in between the guy on the left that is dragging and the guy on the right that is speeding up and expect them to bring all this together into a "groove" at the perfect volume of course. We crank our amps up effortlessly then they have to exert more energy. Can't tell you the number of times I've turned around to see the drummer the first (sometimes the only one) to break a sweat. It ain't no wonder they speed up and slow down occasionally considering their exerting 10 times the physical energy of anyone in the combo. BTW we want you to keep that up for 4 hours plus the encore. Make sure the drums are in tune and don't let that snare rattle.

Wanna' rush... try reading a drum score sometime. The drummers I know can play to a click track and read music... they just choose not to.

My intent was to back off the drum bashers bunkaroo with some dry humor.

Is this horse dead yet?

Tell that to this guy:
http://noisevault.com/studio/dan.html

wow..very nice..Dan is great thanks cAPS,good to see you here again- good demos you got there..cheers!

BTW- anyone tried playing with less clicks as i described above?

ORIGINAL: mildew
here is a song i recently produced - all instruments played by me, song written and sung by db grant.

This is okay, but gosh those drums are a little stiff, you should groove quantize them.


j/k

ORIGINAL: Nick P

Is this horse dead yet?

Now that the consensus shows that being able to play to a click is important to all musicians, maybe we should debate if tuning musical instruments, and tuning them to each other is important at all...

:o) Metradone??? ...wtf ? Is this supposed to be metranome? I'm honestly getting a litltle confused here by some of the lingo being used throughout this thread.

I do agree with the majority of what's been posted for sure. Especially the quote about playing to different tempos. I practice guitar to different tempos and this is quite usefull in coming up with different rhythmic and/or syncopated rhythms.

- John

ORIGINAL: mwd

ORIGINAL: bunkaroo

Apparently you're not paying attention. Clicks are a reference. You still play ahead of the beat, behind the beat, etc as needed. Your statement says to me that both are lacking somewhat and need to meet somehwere in the middle.

Bingo... everyone is taking "clicks" too seriously. They are invaluable tools. I've played for 35 years with two awesome drummers and never once asked them to play to a click track no more than they ever asked me to play only major scales. We inject our drummers in between the guy on the left that is dragging and the guy on the right that is speeding up and expect them to bring all this together into a "groove" at the perfect volume of course. We crank our amps up effortlessly then they have to exert more energy. Can't tell you the number of times I've turned around to see the drummer the first (sometimes the only one) to break a sweat. It ain't no wonder they speed up and slow down occasionally considering their exerting 10 times the physical energy of anyone in the combo. BTW we want you to keep that up for 4 hours plus the encore. Make sure the drums are in tune and don't let that snare rattle.

Wanna' rush... try reading a drum score sometime. The drummers I know can play to a click track and read music... they just choose not to.

My intent was to back off the drum bashers bunkaroo with some dry humor.

Gotcha-sorry if I seemed combative.

This is odd because the last band I recorded insisted that he play to a click...I really didn't want him to because I didn't want that mechanical feel...I had played with him in the past and knew that he had excellent timing, so let's not worry about it. Well, we set up the click and just as others have mentioned in this thread, he kind of played around it. Meaning, it was just there for him if he needed it. He lost no groove at all and was dead on as usual when he needed to be. It was very interesting. On the flip side of this, there are guys out there that are fantastic drummers and just can't seem to play with a click, yet guys that I throught were terrible 'time keepers' going into a project, played great with the click. So, I've learned that I can't judge a dummers ability on what he does with a click track...

Then again, I'm a guitar player and rush just about everything I play. So, what do I know!!???!!