This is one strange post!!!! Almost seems as though some people shouldn't be playing music with the vindictive attitudes portrayed here...Attack on drummers or anyone with bad time......

Bad time come from not practicing with a metronome or click....I think most left out the main reason...subdivisions....
Lack of ability to subdivide within any time signature is usually due to.......lack of practice....

The difference between being "self-taught" and "schooled" - most are self-taught.....

All these things are learned if you go through the proper channels in learning drums....Most people who can sight read
have a firm grasp of subdivisions and time....regardless of instrument...

However, most people don't practice in a band context to a metronome...they "jam" together and usually have "fun" doing it!!!!

Seems like this is no longer acceptable!!!!!

Peace!!! and have fun with music!!!

Just discovered even SessionDrummer 2 needs a clicktrack - no kidding:

I tried to get that 8-bar rock 1 thing to loop, just inserted the midi in the track and voila - but it didn't sound any good at the end - found it's a tiny bit too short. Created a clicktrack with Audacity (VEEEEEEEEEEERY handy!) and tossed that in too, set the length of the loop to THAT (exactly 00:16:00, not 00:15:25, CW), and now it loops *perfectly*.

So, even dead drummers need a metronome, apparently.

ORIGINAL: pianodano

ORIGINAL: Ognis

Because drummers are the worst musicians in a band.

Let me explain something to you. Drummers have a NATURAL feel for rhythm. When you put a metrodome (I know I spelled that wrong) to us, you throw us off. Simple as that. .

Man, how things change !. Back in the "disco Era" of the 70's when 10 piece horn bands were the norm and the drummer played everything behind the beat except the kick, your method would have been a real hoot. I can see it right now. Horn section players falling all over each other and REAL dancers numbering on average, 200 - 400 people on the floor in the average beach club around here falling down on the floor trying to follow the drummer who is in his own little world. Yep, he wouln't have lasted 1 night.

Hate to burst your bubble but, even then, drummers worked to a in ear metronome with tempos predetermined by the bands arranger, not the drummer.

Playing to a click is difficult for some people BECAUSE they can't keep time, because, they haven't practiced it for years on end. To busy recording, I suppose.

Amen!

Great post.

taking a strong rhythm take of the tune lay it down solid, mix a little, burn a copy, give to ur drummer to rehearse with for a week or two. this dose wonders. if u lay down ur rhythm trk with the click on & in it it help the drummer alot but, it also comes down to seat time .
the guys in my church band are really great people to work with & they really want it to be right but the lack of seat time has really pushed me to come up with creative ideas to overcome this age old problum, a great thread!
iv done the above i speak of & it has made a difference but, there are still problums iv said it once il say it a million times there is no replacement for human displacement thats the way GOD made us . thats why classics that are still getting airplay 30 years later -put a metrenome to those tunes ul be shocked

ORIGINAL: Honest_Al

All good musicians have a natural feel and an internal clock.
A metronome is " throwing you off" ???

......he always practiced at home with a metronome. The teacher I'm talking about used a metronome in the lessons off and on and was very very strict about learning what strict time was all about.

Steve- good posts..as usual ;)
talking about the metronome again..
MKS (who mentioned on page 2 the 1/8 click if 1/4 doesn't seem to work)..and everyone -
IMHO one of the harder/best things to practice for getting a "natural" feel (playing around time or exactly on time- first of all you got to have decent timing for the hits themselves) but still play in a constant tempo and constrain yourself to one or a small range of BPM changes is the opposite of "more click"/ more sub divisions like 1/8 or 1/16 -

practice in each session with less and less of beats that have a click on them..you'll need one of those nicer metronomes for that or a drum machine/sequencer..
so, starting with a 1/4 metronome and getting used to a certain tempo gradually try leaving just the 1 and 3.. beats 2 and 4..or any other combination (like 1..2.._.._)
until you just leave the FIRST beat of each measure! this would give you a nice gap of 2-3 or even 4 seconds if you practice on the slower grooves/bpm's !

the trick is of course to fall exactly on that single ONE of those next measures.. after some practice you can really do it..for some it won't be so comfortable..(and here we go back to the talent thing;)

even try longer periods (2 measures) of no metronome besides beat 1..it's a nice feeling to play on those large gaps and then falling exactly on a beat that you were expecting to appear then you know you really "feel" that tempo.. you're locked..metronome or not

I thought I'd bump this. This is a great exercise, learning how to wean yourself from being pinged constantly. But also, it's probably better to attempt this after you can already keep time comfortably with more frequent metronome pings, i.e. quarter or half note.

If your metronome is too "old school" to support down beat / half / quarter note pings, then you can still get the same effect by dividing your current BPM by 2 or 4 and calling that the down beat / half beat.

Like any discipline, learning how to do this the first time will not be fun. For a while, it may even drive you nuts and tempt you to pull your hair out. But don't do that (Minoxidil is expensive), just go out and take a walk, breathe some fresh air, sleep on it, and after a fashion, it will be like second nature to you.

Great post Al, you are a benefactor to us all.

Without a doubt the best drummers I've ever played with/recorded could all play to a click and groove so well that, when listening back to a recording, there was no thought about whether there was a click in the first place. The second best group could all play to a click but didn't necessarily groove like the first group. The timing would be good, but the feel was somewhat lacking. Still, this often produced usable but not necesarily inspiring drum tracks. The worst group could never play to a click, always complained that the click destroyed their feel, and really never produced anything worthwhile. I never did a session/jammed with a drummer who complained about click tracks that was worth a darn. I'm sure they're out there, but I've never met them.

I always set my metronome to double speed in order to help me keep good accurate time, not just on the drums but on all the bits. If you are trying to be really accurate and playing either a pretty sparse part that has few notes or one that has a lot of activity in a given measure or something for which some swing isn't a good thing, it really helps to have those in-between beats. There again, even if I felt I could get away without it, I would probably still do it just to be sure that everything stays tight. It's a crutch of course, but I'd rather be right than brave.

Because, unless you give the drummer a Guinness before he/she attempts to play along with the click, they will not be able to differentiate the sound of the click from their own heart beating in anticipation of receiving the beer they will never get as a result of their unappreciated stature in the band.

ORIGINAL: newbie1000

Why is it very easy to play guitar or bass to a clicktrack, but very difficult to play drums to a click??

Hey Carlos, thank you for the kind words < *blush* > and for bumping that up

You betcha, Al. God bless...