Beepster
PE is definitely an outlier and I probably shouldn't have used them as an example but as punkoid I love that stuff.
 
And yes indeedy there was some ridiculous stuff said over the years by their members but I think Chuck is still a rock. Flav really went silly but I guess he was always silly.
 
The stuff I appreciate these days are the laid back, smooth talking rap bands with some nice funk/jazz/motown grooves and thoughtful lyrical content. I find when those guys get really acidic with the political/sociological sentiments it just has a lot more of an impact/emotional effect on me.
 
The sad part is I could not for the life of me name a single group that does that style. I just hear it in my general intertube travels (and back when I had a life pumping out of shops and clubs in my old hood) and I just love it. I'd totally play some jazzy guit or walking bass for an act like that.
 

that sound is pretty much illegal now unless you :


 
1)release the album underground illegaly
2) do it for fun
 
Only two types of hip-hop producers bother sampling at all now.  Those that are very underground and figure they have nothing to get sued for and big name artists that can afford the fees. A lot of songs that sound sampled are actually bands playing in a style to sound that.  Oddly enough, kanye was one of the early adopters of that type of style. he occasionally licenses a sample since he can afford it but a lot of it is just studio bands instructed to play a certain style.
 
By the way.  wasn't trying to rag on PE.  I spent a lot of time around Chuck back in the day and he's a likeable guy.   i was just looking for something i admit is silly, finding consistency in dislike.

When I end up actually finding the name of an artist or group like that that I like (which obviously I quickly forget) and hunt them down on youtube or wherever a lot of the time they do have a live band backing them.
 
I'm remembering now Chappelle had a couple acts on I really dug like that and some of the tracks used on The Boondocks hit that nerve.
 
And that's cool you got to hang with Chuck. Even though I'm a bit of a rocker dinosaur by today's standards I gotta say I consider him a bit of an idol.
 
Whether anyone agreed or not that dude MEANT it. No guff. No fluff. Love that.

dubdisciple
 
Which brings us to the essence of what the hate for kanye really boils down to.  the most venomous assaults on kanye always boil down to people who don't like hip-hop.  Even within Hip-hop kanye, as a person is not well liked, but most ignore him.  Whenever kanye's success is brought into the equation, the typical downplay move seems to be to dismiss the genre. i always found it very interesting that PE is often bought up as a better representative of hip-hop when a closer examination shows that may be a paradox. Members of PE have said and done far worse than Kanye.  It's not the sampling, since a PE song would cost millions in sample clearence today.  It's not his outspoken views.  PE was a nice recruitment tool for the nation of Islam and went from campus to campus bringing farakhan to the masses. I think once critics decide to love or hate a group/artist they develop blinders

 
I don't think it's fair to insist on the fact that people hate the guy because they don't like hip hop. Certainly not in the context of this discussion, which was focused on what he said.
 
As I said, personally, I can dig some of that stuff - Cypress Hill were yet another staple of my DJ days. I just don't like hip hop as a genre, no more than I'd like Led Zeppelin if they only played songs like Dazed and Confused, even if I love that song.
 
Making declarations such as he did after the Grammys, you're going to alienate people, regardless of the genre of music you do. And that's what was debated in this thread, as far as I can tell, until his artistic merits were brought into question.
 
No matter their merits, when someone says something like this and become such a megalomaniac, I don't think it's unfair to criticize them, especially if they are a self-proclaimed genius on a mission given to them by God Himself...
 
If one wants to call themselves a "genius", it's stands to reason that it's fair game to compare their work to that of other artists commonly regarded as "geniuses" - Da Vinci, Bach, Goethe, Mozart, Beethoven, etc...
 
I don't have to ignore those real geniuses to accommodate some ignorant entertainer's definition of genius...
 
In that light, whether its Hip Hop or Rock and Roll, the claim is equally ridiculous. Some of my favorite musicians are almost as delusional as the guy, and I find them as ridiculous. They just don't get as much coverage.

I'm not into hip hop as a genre either, I have to say I find it boring, but that's just my taste. However there are always a few artists from genres you don't like who stand out because they're unique or just float your boat or whatever. I loved Dr. Octagon (Kool Keith) and The Beastie Boys, I guess because there was something tongue in cheek about their output. I'm all about tongues in cheeks.

Rain

dubdisciple
 
Which brings us to the essence of what the hate for kanye really boils down to.  the most venomous assaults on kanye always boil down to people who don't like hip-hop.  Even within Hip-hop kanye, as a person is not well liked, but most ignore him.  Whenever kanye's success is brought into the equation, the typical downplay move seems to be to dismiss the genre. i always found it very interesting that PE is often bought up as a better representative of hip-hop when a closer examination shows that may be a paradox. Members of PE have said and done far worse than Kanye.  It's not the sampling, since a PE song would cost millions in sample clearence today.  It's not his outspoken views.  PE was a nice recruitment tool for the nation of Islam and went from campus to campus bringing farakhan to the masses. I think once critics decide to love or hate a group/artist they develop blinders

 
I don't think it's fair to insist on the fact that people hate the guy because they don't like hip hop. Certainly not in the context of this discussion, which was focused on what he said.
 
As I said, personally, I can dig some of that stuff - Cypress Hill were yet another staple of my DJ days. I just don't like hip hop as a genre, no more than I'd like Led Zeppelin if they only played songs like Dazed and Confused, even if I love that song.
 
Making declarations such as he did after the Grammys, you're going to alienate people, regardless of the genre of music you do. And that's what was debated in this thread, as far as I can tell, until his artistic merits were brought into question.
 
No matter their merits, when someone says something like this and become such a megalomaniac, I don't think it's unfair to criticize them, especially if they are a self-proclaimed genius on a mission given to them by God Himself...
 
If one wants to call themselves a "genius", it's stands to reason that it's fair game to compare their work to that of other artists commonly regarded as "geniuses" - Da Vinci, Bach, Goethe, Mozart, Beethoven, etc...
 
I don't have to ignore those real geniuses to accommodate some ignorant entertainer's definition of genius...
 
In that light, whether its Hip Hop or Rock and Roll, the claim is equally ridiculous. Some of my favorite musicians are almost as delusional as the guy, and I find them as ridiculous. They just don't get as much coverage.

It would be unfair..but that's not what i said. I did not claim people hate him for that reason. I even pointed out lots of people in the hip-hop community can't stand him. I said the most passionate hate comes from people who dislike hip-hop. Not the same thing.  

Through all this, has anyone (including Kanye) considered that all this potentially proves is that maybe Beck just spends more time on his knees than Beyonce?...

Royal Yaksman
Through all this, has anyone (including Kanye) considered that all this potentially proves is that maybe Beck just spends more time on his knees than Beyonce?...

Three pages on discussing West-ed time........the FSF has sooo much more to offer........1300 more pages!!  

https://soundcloud.com/jmasno5/douchebag
 
I dunno, it seemed somewhat apropos given the discussion.
 

Update from Ultimate Classic Rock:
 
 
The hits keep coming for Kanye West, and not the Billboard kind.
 
Nikki Sixx has taken the hip-hop star to task on the issue of respecting artistry, a key element of West’s controversial Grammy-night complaints about Beck‘s best-album win, while Doobie Brothers star Michael McDonald is questioning whether West has any talent in the first place.
 
“I don’t think it even really bears too much thought,” McDonald tells Dan Le Batard. “It’s pretty obvious what Kanye’s problem is. When Kanye gets to a point where he can actually put a couple of notes together either vocally or two bars of valid music playing an instrument, then he might have a right to criticize somebody else. Until then, I think he’s just talking to hear the sound of his own voice.”
 
Sixx, meanwhile, has reposted a opinion piece from Variety with the headline “No, Kanye, It’s You Who Needs to ‘Respect Artistry’” to Facebook — and added the comment, “I couldn’t agree more.”
 
McDonald also dragged out the age-old is-rap-real-music debate, one that’s been around since the genre emerged in the late ’70s, before going on to praise Beck. “The whole kinda cut-and-paste thing is a certain kind of artform all by itself,” McDonald adds. “I don’t know if I call it songwriting from a musician’s standpoint. … Beck is obviously a consummate musician. He plays instruments, many instruments. He can make his own record without having a fleet of computer operators onboard.”
 
Kiss guitarist Paul Stanley was among the first in what’s become a fast-growing chorus of artists criticizing West for his Sunday night antics — suggesting that Beck should have kicked West “right in the nuts.”