• Songs
  • Slipping Away (Attempt 3) - By my band Puppet Cell (Metal)
2012/12/12 04:45:44
STinGA
Here's our second offering on here.

I've struggled to get this one right.  Interested in your thoughts good and bad.

Thanks.

PS.... STRONG LANGUAGE WARNING!!! 

A/B below 

Original  

https://soundcloud.com/pa...pping-away-final-again

Remixed Post Danny's comments

https://soundcloud.com/pa...ipping-away-post-danny 

Attempt 3   

https://soundcloud.com/pa...lipping-away-more-bass


Here's to hoping (crossing everything)... give it to me Danny!





2012/12/12 05:28:13
Danny Danzi
Hey Sting,

I like the direction this is going in...but I'd be willing to bet you really struggled with the bass, right? :) It seems a bit sub low sounding to me...like way sub low. Like, I feel the bass way more than I hear it. If I was a bassist trying out for this band, I'd be lost as to what I'd have to play so I'd try to write something around the guitars because the bass itself is pretty buried in low end.

The guitars could have some more meat in them in my opinion. For example, if you low passed them and got rid of the piercing frequencies in there, you could literally make them louder in the mix. Especially the lead guitar...as the higher notes are a bit piercing to me. Acoustics or clean guitars in the back sound really good, vox sound good...they get lost a bit at times, so you may want to automate a bit more to keep them consistent.

Drums sound good to me too. I'd just work on getting that bass to be less sub low sounding and take care of the high end sizzle on your dirty guitars. You should be in good shape there with a few of those changes. Really dug the song though. Just remember...with bass...it actually has a lot less low end in it than you may believe. When you add subs like what you have here...it sounds cool in headphones or earbuds...but on real monitors bro...all I hear is woooom woooom woooom wooooom and can barely make out the notes. So always watch your low end subs on bass guitar. I'd definitely high pass it and remove the super subs. Not sure how low you're actually going down here...but it's way low in frequency range to my ears.

All that aside, again, I dug the song and think you did a nice job on it. Best of luck...thanks for sharing. :)

-Danny
2012/12/12 05:29:13
Danny Danzi
Opps...not sure what happened here. Sorry.
2012/12/12 05:40:49
STinGA
Thanks Danni, having followed what you've said on here for years its an opinion I really respect. 

I will go away again and have a head scratch.  I am actually mixing on monitors (genelec 1029's) but in a less than ideal room - although using ARC2.  


You have actually nailed all 3 points I was struggling with, Bass, Vox level and the piercing high end frequency of the gtrs.

I'll have a re-think.

Very much appreciated your comments thank you
2012/12/12 06:09:44
STinGA
Ah Danni

How right you are, even a quick play this end shows the error of my ways. Way to much low end, which weirdly opens everything else up once removed.
I'll keep playing, then post an A/B.

Thanks so much!

2012/12/12 06:12:22
STinGA
Duh, Danni = Danny!
2012/12/12 06:12:48
Danny Danzi
STinGA


Thanks Danni, having followed what you've said on here for years its an opinion I really respect. 

I will go away again and have a head scratch.  I am actually mixing on monitors (genelec 1029's) but in a less than ideal room - although using ARC2.  


You have actually nailed all 3 points I was struggling with, Bass, Vox level and the piercing high end frequency of the gtrs.

I'll have a re-think.

Very much appreciated your comments thank you

You're quite welcome. Some of this stuff as you know, will always remain subjective. I try to stay away from that sort of advice because...well, there are just too many variables and opinions. LOL!
 
But definitely look into the stuff I mentioned as I feel strongly about it and hear it on the 3 monitor systems I've listened on here. A few starting points for you to consider STinGA:
 
1. Guitars: The sizzle in guitars depends on 3 important things.
a. Your monitors
b. The sound itself
c. How sensitive your ears are to high end frequencies.
 
My bassist in my band always tells me he wishes I had more high end in my guitar tone. I've always felt I had enough and anything more would be piercing. He had his hearing checked recently and sure enough, his high end is pretty cooked from all the years of super loud music and lack of hearing protection.
 
That said, curbing the highs on guitars usually starts from about 3k on up depending on the sound. 3k-6k usually give you the piercing high end while 7k and above sort of give you an "air sizzle" or almost the high end resonance you get from a tube amp. So you need to determine where your high end needs to be curbed.
 
One thing you want to do in situations like this is to always cure the problem. Meaning, if you have high end going on, try to curb it first without just pumping up lows to compensate. In your situation, I think eliminating the harsh highs will help your tones quite a lot. Once you balance that, you can determine whether or not you need more beef in the tone itself in the low mids or mid range area. But once you cure the sizzle, you'll be able to make the guitars louder in the mix. From there you should be able to hear them better and make decisions on further sculpting the tone. It;s amazing how much they can change though just by altering that high end sizzle.
 
Bass: Your kick drum seems to be hitting me over here at about 75 Hz or so. I'd place the bass at about 55 Hz and run a high pass at 55 Hz starting with a Q (use the Sonitus just to test this theory) of 0.8. Increase the Q until you get a nice little low end that isn't rumbling all over the place. From there, experiment in the 2k to 3k range for a little percussive "clack" as I like to call it and see how you're doing. Don't worry about any bumps in the 200-300 range on your bass....if anything, you may need to cut a bit in those ranges as they can mud you up pretty fast. Just concentrate on a balanced low end with a little clack/percussivness to hear the notes and then you can tweak the in betweens to further thicken or take away other stuff in the bass.
 
Vox: I like the sound you got on these actually, so I don't think the eq is a problem. You may be able to add a little more low mid, but you don't want to mess with any of that until you get the bass guitar sorted. Just run some automation on the vocal lines so you hear everything at all times. A rule of thumb for me when I first started mixing vocals (especially when they were my own voice) was to always run the fader up +0.5 to +1.0 dB louder than I felt it should be. We seem to be a little cautious of our own voices so we mix them lower.
 
After you get a little feedback and sort of understand where a good vocal level should be, you won't have to do the "+" technique anymore. But it's a good way to at least get yourself in the right ball-park. From there, just automate and you should be fine. Another thing to keep in mind Sting that will help you...
 
Most of the people that hear your song for the first few times will not know what words or parts are coming next. You know everything by heart because you either wrote the tune and or mixed it and heard it 3000 times, right? LOL! So you know everything...which puts you as the engineer, at a slight disadvantage to where you have to compensate. Those hearing things for the first time will struggle to hear things if they aren't blatantly obvious, so always try to keep that in mind. Even with lead guitar solos....when we know the solo, we tend to lay back on the level at times. Any solo instrument needs to be treated in this manner in my humble opinion...so just keep that in your back pocket in the future. By the way....I dug that solo section...meant to compliment you on that before. :)
 
Best of luck on the tune and thanks for the kind words. I hope some of the stuff I've shared here and over the years has helped you out a bit. :)
 
-Danny
2012/12/12 06:19:08
Danny Danzi
Danni: Danny Danzi's long lost sister who unfortunately ended up with the same nic name but is actually called "Danielle". She lived in a closet under my stairs. I'll tell her you were asking for her. LOL! :)

It's ok...I get that all the time. At one point, it was getting so bad on here, I was spelling it DannY so people would see the Y. Hahahaha! It's all good though brother...I know, sometimes with my long hair, I probably look like Danni. LOL!

-Danny
2012/12/12 11:40:07
mgh
Nice retro sound to this song, kinda like those late thrash albums by bands like Metal Church. SInger is good, i like that voice. This mix is clearly better than the original, the bass is nicely audible now, gutars could still have a little more impact, but overall pretty cool!
2012/12/12 11:52:05
Lynn
This mix sounds about right for this style of music.  Danny's advice is good, and I think you are close to that happy medium.  Well played song!
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