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  • A couple of my "How To Play ".......video guitar lessons (p.3)
2012/11/13 18:14:25
timidi
How exactly did that tune influence you? (Seriously, I'd like to know).



Hey Rus. I've probably disrupted this thread enough. And, I apologize to Kenny for that. I meant no harm.
But, to answer your question, It influenced me in the importance of harmony and more so the importance of simplicity.
2012/11/13 18:50:22
Rus W
darylcrowley


You have that same love of complex chords that I do.  I also love using substitution chords ( ie. Dm7b5 - Fm6 -  Bb9, etc.)  What some people call dissonant, I call beautiful.  I also love exercises that just work on the theory, because that's what makes it second nature.  Thanks. 

Flat/sharp 5s & 9s, dim, major 7+6, and nothing gives me chills more than a m9.  Chord melody lends to understanding the relationship of melody to harmony.  I would be interested a video discussing techniques for bass lines with chord melody.

Daryl

Now, do you mean the chord (Xm9) or interval (b9)? Personally, I just adore the latter! There probably some videos on YT or there're some tips given in much more detail, but gerenally they start from being diatonic (chord tones) to wonderfully colorful; however, as with riffs/solos for guitar/paino, handle with care and discipline.


That said, bass lines are dependent on the drum part (since they go together anyway). (How do you know when a bass/drum player is playing solo? When the other stops playing!) so the simplest thing from the rhythm perspective would be: "Do whatever the kick is doing." Generally, you hear coinciding rhythms in Latin music. (ie: One Note Samba in the reply to TIMIDI)


Time Signatures are an issue, too.


4/4 vs. 2/8 (6/8) Often times, the Tonic and Dominant notes (I and V) are played on beats 1 and 3 or 2 and 4 in 4/4 whereas in 6/8, the same notes are played on beats one and two (pulses 1 + 4) If a Snare/Hat is involved, it's usually on beats described above.


Genre's another thing to consider.


Blues/Rock/Country/Gospel/Bossa Nova have very simple rhythms - minims (half notes) on 1 and 3! AMMOF, I saw a video showing the typical Bossa Nova rhythm for a bassline:  Straight on beats 1 & 3, where there may be an occassional dotted eighth + sixteenth played on a beat. When you get into Samba and Salsa (Bossa Nova and Salsa grew from Samba), the basslines are a bit more syncopated, not to mention the faster tempos.


Jazz (How much time do you have - kidding!)


Basslines can be of a straight or swing variety (no dirty jokes, please!). This genre as well as blues, rock, country and gospel employ walking basslines. This is essentially where the bass (electric/upright) guitar, piano (and other instruments) go up or down a scale or up or down using chord tones (diatonic, non-diatonic or both) A very popular subgenre is jazz - specifically, solo piano - is stride, One walks up/down by a single note (in the LH), the octave or tenths (compounded thirds), Bass like instruments, though a different technique is required can do this, too. The Jazz Waltz is a "Swing" Waltz - different from the traditional "Straight Waltz"


As noted above, in terms of notes, when starting out, just play the root and fifth, then gradually get into the other chord tones (3,7,9, 4(11), 6(13). Later, start experimenting with Color Tones and Chromaticism (used judiciously, of course).


The general rule for the bass player and bass line is to outline or drive the tune. Also, realize the basslines can and do consists of playing the tune itself. Mary Had A Little Lamb, for instance. If the bass player is tired of I-V and/or walking (for sake of simplicity) the piano can take the bassline and the bass player can take the melody. Then, you get into the issue of which octave to play it in, but that's generally not a problem.


Another thing to consider (the piano is the poster-child) is the setting: Are you part of a group or going solo because things you do solo, you wouldn't do in a group and vice-versa.

In jazz environments, usually the piano player uses rootless voicings as the bass player (or functioning one) handles it (Root-Fifth). However, that isn't to say that it's always or has to always be like that. Yet, his/her Upright/Electric and your LH (Piano), don't wanna run in to each other. This has and can occur, but hopefully this will be rare or just not very often.

Yet, if you're going solo, you need a "virtual" bass player (your LH). In this situation, two things can happen:

A) You have your bass and piano person - this means the melody is within arms' (fingers') reach which voicing appropriately becomes critical.

B) The bass person makes (or you want him/her) to make occasional appearances. This is where sustain pedal usage is also crucial because it connects the bass player (LH) to the piano player (RH) if the hands can''t do it.

When composing, it's different matter all together, but one wants to keep those performance guidelines in mind, too (and this isn't solely aimed at the orchestra - as strict as orchestral composition is)

So, some of the techniques are: Chord Tones; Walking/(Running)/Swinging; Diatonic/Non-Diatonic Scaling; Rhythm Variation (Simple/Syncopated); I forgot, Drone Notes.

Drone Notes are used, predominately in a jazz setting where vamps are employed and/or solos are done over one note over series of chords - most often two because you lose the modal feel when a third chord is introduced is the sequence) This is one of the ways to begin to play/understand playing modally. That's a whole another topic. However, it fits here because when one plays in a key. one of two modes (or both if the key changes) is being applied. Ionian (The Major Key) and Aeolian (The Relative Minor Key)

This is then where we get into improvisation (a behemoth of a topic within itself), but back to drone notes:

To provide an example of a drone note application:

Remember harmonizing scales? Whatever the tonic is, play that note against all seven chords. Here, you will get the different sounds/modes/moods. If you're thinking harmonically in terms of progressions, here's an example of what you'll get:

Against a C Drone (Traids): I-ii-iii-iv-V-vi-vii

*C-Dm7-CMaj7-F-Cadd9-Am7(C6)-Bdim/C-C (Complete chord names when drone is included)

Against a C Drone (Sevenths)

*CMaj7-Dm7-CMaj9(Em7/C)-FMaj7-G7/C-Am7(C6)-Bm7b5(Dm6)/C

Therefore, not only can a bassline move, it can remain stationary; however, the slightest bit of movement wil add variety (and keep interest to even the player); however, too much and it may sound erratic. Yet, it is possible too have oodles of movements, but not sound like you're all over the place. 

If you don't take anything else, remember to follow the chord tones and if you aren't sure what they are, listen out for other instruments that are playing the chord tones - specifically the roots because that is what guides a bass part. It's a question of "How do I get from Point A to Point B when writing a bassline?"

Above all, listen to tons of tunes - specifically for the bass part - whether it's the said instrument or one function as. I'll post some videos, later. I hope this helps. (Click the iBM link in my forum if you need more, I'm over there as well)

(If you're still unsure if I'm into this stuff, I don't know what else to do)
2012/11/13 18:57:27
Rus W
timidi



How exactly did that tune influence you? (Seriously, I'd like to know).



Hey Rus. I've probably disrupted this thread enough. And, I apologize to Kenny for that. I meant no harm.
But, to answer your question, It influenced me in the importance of harmony and more so the importance of simplicity.

Heh! I probably have as well and no offense taken! I see. I don't know if it taught me the importance or simplicity of it, but it did inspire me to open up my sound pallette. (My harmonies are close 99% of the time. so I'm just experimenting and I do like what I hear, though I still perfer the dark tonality).


If there was a genre that did expose me to open harmonies, it was jazz and chorals. Obviously, I got exposed to Latin music later.
2012/11/14 22:37:36
kennywtelejazz
Hi guys, I'm very happy that folks here have given my little videos a watch / listen...BTW...I'm OK with all the cross talk and various discussions that have sprouted up on this thread .For me, the whole point of making these type of videos is to share some ideas and to get people to engage in thought /open discussion. The only problem I'm having is over here on my end w my super old and out dated internet computer and this forums software...Everybody that knows me here knows that I like to answer back in a highly individual response by quoting and chatting it up w the participants and forum members by name that take the time to listen and leave a comment in my threads.I feel like I'm doing a YAADAAYAADAYADA over here , the thing is for some reason I can't edit my posts,i can't get no smileys , and everything I type , no matter how pretty and lined up it all looks over here ends up looking like a large Circus Elephant came along and took all my words edited them against my will and pooped out a large steaming pile in one long running paragraph......my apology 's for not being able to do the one on one w my friends here ....as time permits I will be able to go to your threads and leave short comments .....Oh one last thing , a few folks did pick up on the 3rd video I added ...thanks ....for those that didn't here's the link....http://youtu.be/LhLgnKI5NQc,,, Kenny
2012/11/14 22:40:49
kennywtelejazz
see what I mean LOL , anyway here's the link again for vid 3 since it don't work in my last post . Whats The Point Dude http://youtu.be/LhLgnKI5NQc
2012/11/15 14:37:29
Rus W
"I'm train-wrecking!" Great!  Nice improvisation, too. Obviously, I get it, but for those that don't or don't have the ear, it may seem like just random notes.

However, music nowadays (it always was actually) is relatively simple where just the basic stuff seems to be applied. I was watching a YT video yesterday regarding the simplicity and repetitiveness of pop music (not slighting it or saying simplicity isn't great (funny coming from me) however, it does get so much flack for those reasons, ironically).

The point I got is with all the theory stuff and aside the goal is to have fun (no matter how many train-wrecks" occur - and you can't help, but look). And you definitely appear to be having a blast.

Btw, I just heard your Hypothesis of Funk track. LOL at the "Big Top" motif towards the end! Great playing. (I hope you don't mind me having subscribed to your channel) 
2012/11/17 04:13:47
kennywtelejazz
Hi Mike , yep i've been feeling like a hack myself some days , thankfully I use that negative emotion as a motivation to practice and improve ( at least on the good days )on the bad days , I listen to music , watch movies and eat chocolates lol... thank you man, Kenny
2012/11/17 04:24:56
kennywtelejazz
Hi James, thanks for the kind words on my speaking voice .I do hope that you will find something that you will want to learn from me...my goal is to start doing videos where what I'm sharing is accessible to all levels ...I'm in the process of formulating a plan of action on what to film next...all the best, Kenny
2012/11/17 04:29:10
kennywtelejazz
Hi Ace, it's nice to be able to meet up and share music and musical ides where folks are just being themselves .thank you for the kind words . Kenny
2012/11/17 04:32:52
kennywtelejazz
hi ohgrant , I do hope that the next few vids will be very easy to grab....that is important to me ...thank you . Kenny
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