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  • Help with lyrics? Is this legal?
2012/11/19 14:41:13
Janet
I've never done this here, nor do remember seeing it done.  But I'm hoping that maybe ya'll will show me a little grace, like you always do...or kick me (nicely) into another forum or something.  

Anyway, I've got this written, but am fairly certain some things could be said better.  The music's real pretty I think, but I realized last night that the range is way too big for any normal person.  So...we'll see what happens.  Maybe I'll read it while I play it.  lol

So...fire away.  And thanks!   

Edit:  OK, the first rhymes now.  ;)  Well, mostly. 

If I Don’t get to Say Goodbye
 
Verse 1:
If I don’t get to say goodbye, know I love you,

If I never get a chance to say it one more time,

Just wanna hold your hand and say, I’m so thankful

That I am yours and you are mine.

 
Verse 2:
Before you came into my life, I was searching

Always looking for someone to make me whole

We shared a laugh one day, and my heart melted,

You lit a fire down in my soul.

 
Chorus:
For the sun comes up in your eyes

And the waves roll in to the shore 
When you take me in your arms, whisper I am yours,

There’s nothing else I could want more.

 
Bridge:
When the final curtain falls, And my final song is sung,

I hope you’re by my side, So I can tell you once again…




2012/11/19 15:20:45
Guitarhacker
What would be illegal about that?  Unless you stole it form someone else.... Ohhh.... I see said the blind man.... yeah, Cake doesn't really have a lyrics forum...... does it? 

I'm glad to see you striking out into lyric writing. Please accept this with a grain of salt. It's not meant to be harsh or critical.... just some basics into writing that have taken me a while to learn. 

When it comes to lyrics..... there are certain "rules" that should be followed to one degree or another. Some would argue that's not the case, that anything goes. I would say maybe..... but the rules are there for a reason and if you listen to popular songs, most of them follow the rules to the letter. 

Writing lyric is a learned skill. The more you write, the better you get. 

My co-writer, who is more of a lyricist than I, has taught me a few things....and just a few days ago, I had the opportunity to talk in depth with a Nashville hit writer on the topic of writing, as it concerned stuff I had written....and he backed up what Pat said, and actually went deeper. 

Here's what I learned from both the Nashville cat and my co-writer. 

You need a rhyming structure. You can choose to have one or not....if not, the words must be extremely powerful to the point that rhyming is not as important as the words. (this is generally a very rare situation) 

So having a rhyming structure is critical. No matter the form... if you rhyme the last word in line 1 & 3  or 2 & 4 or both..... you must follow through the same pattern on all the verses. You can also rhyme words inside the lines....again, that should be repeated in the following verses. 

Your syllable count .... line by line, should also match from one verse to the next. Not doing this makes the melody different in it's rhythm. 

The overall structure..... verses, bridge, chorus....is totally up to you the writer as you tell the story through the song.

Verses provide details, who what when where why, kind of things.... they can tell the story from various points of view....or build on one another to complete the story in parts.

Choruses tie all the verses together and give the song the anchor point.... generally the title and hook (musical and lyrical hook) will be found in the chorus. This should be very easy to predict where the title is and you should be able to name the title without knowing it...first time you hear the song. 

Bridges.... are just that... they take you from one place to another and they connect things.... the most important thing to me about a bridge is that it should be melodically different from the verse/chorus in the song and it should add a different perspective to the song. Kind of like a twist in the plot. This is where you give some new information on the story. It will generally take you right back to the chorus where now, you may view the chorus in a different light. 

Dang... was that too much information? 

Sorry if it was.... I love writing and talking about writing....

Another thing.... beginners tend to use lots of cliches..... avoid cliches. Think about what you want to say...... "I love you"  is so cliche in songs but it's used a lot..... it's been said thousands of times before..... instead.... think of a way to say it differently.... " I can't live without the sparkle in your eyes, the funny way you smile"..... it says about the same thing, but in a way it may not have been said before. Listen to the songs on the radio..... lots of people pan that stuff, but you gotta listen to see how these writers are saying the same old things..... BUT in a new and different way. 

Hope this helps you..... 

If you are going to be writing lyrics, I would suggest getting a few books on the art and aspect of writing song lyrics. 

Edit: on melodic range....if it's out of the range of the "normal singers" maybe it should be changed so it does fit. Not everyone has the range of just a handful of the pros......  changing a melody to fit a more realistic vocal range is easy work.

2012/11/19 15:38:39
Beepster
I'm a big fan of breaking the rhyming "rules" of lyric writing. That's a nice set of lyrics and if it fits to the song I see nothing wrong with any of it. Some of the best lyricists know how to make their words work without rhyming. It's a matter of how you execute the vocals that can make or break this style of writing. I like the way you rhyme some lines but not in the typical way. It breaks up the usual stale monotony found in a lot of pop tunes and if the song isn't repetitious (like an orchestral score) then neither should the lyrics.
2012/11/19 15:54:10
quantumeffect
For the second line in the first verse I think time is better than again as a “sort of rhyme” for mine. Something like this:

If I don’t get to say goodbye, know I love you,

You’re the rhythm of my heart beating in time

Just wanna hold your hand and say, I’m so thankful

That I am yours and you are mine.
2012/11/19 16:02:47
Beepster
Is this a flowing song, Janet... musically speaking or is it repeating parts? I still don't think it matters but if it is a more repetitive tune that's where you might want to look into rhyming more.

One neat trick I like to do is instead of making the last word in a line rhyme is make the word before the last one (or a couple words before) rhyme and let that land in the same spot as the previous word but then have the last word trail into the next part. It creates a very cool and interesting move from part to part.

BTW I've been writing lyrics for over twenty years so I'm not talking out my butt... mostly. ;-)
2012/11/19 16:06:00
Guitarhacker
Being willing to scratch something out totally and think out of the box to find something that fits.... 

work with a co-writer. Nothing has helped me more than this one thing. 

Do you have a rhyming dictionary? There are some writing tools like this on line.

I often take the word that needs to rhyme in a line that is really well written.....and look it up in a rhyming dictionary to see as many other words that are primary rhymes....and then secondary rhymes....then the imperfect rhymes....and of course.... rhyming phrases. Rhyming phrases, if not cliches, can really take the lyric in unique directions. 

Look online to find some sites that offer these kind of tools. I use Masterwriter (a paid program) which has all this built in and updated regularly.  Most people can think of half a dozen rhymes to maybe a dozen..... but a good rhyming dictionary will provide you with hundreds of words that rhyme.... unless you are trying to rhyme "orange"..... even Masterwriter is stumped on that one. Some words I have looked up have over 35 PAGES of rhymes..... if you can't get a good unique idea from that many words.... maybe you got the wrong word. 

I have used that very method numerous times when I got stuck on a line. I look at the rhyming words and something will fit...and a new line to the song is written.
2012/11/19 16:14:57
Beepster
If I'm having difficulty rhyming a word where I think it is necessary musically I'll bend the inflection of both words to match up better. Then there is always the option of making up nonsense "words" kind of like breaking into scat... but not necessarily scat.
2012/11/19 16:34:39
quantumeffect
Here is a suggestion for the 3rd line of the second verse:

Before you came into my life, I was searching

Always looking for someone to make me whole

When we shared that wine and chocolate, my heart melted

You lit a fire down in my soul.

(that line will fit with your phrasing in the 1st verse if you sing chocolate with 2 syllables)
2012/11/19 16:52:35
Janet
Thanks, you guys!  :)  Looks like I forgot to even try to rhyme that first verse. Duh...Anyway, great points and thoughts.  I appreciate it!  
2012/11/19 17:36:15
tKx5050

Great advice from all the above!

Lyrics aren't necessarily poetry, so it's really hard to judge lyrics without knowing the melody. While a sense of rhyme is important, in a lot of today's contemporary music a sense of conversation is more important. It has to sound like someone would really say it, and if it comes off as sounding cool/hip so much the better.
Go to this page and click the "study the hits" link. Robin does a great job of breaking down today's hit songs and explaining what makes them work. www.robinfrederick.com

Most of all have fun. While rules are meant to be broken, it's best to know the rules first.

Steve
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