• Songs
  • Help with lyrics? Is this legal? (p.3)
2012/11/19 23:26:37
Janet
Yes, that's me.  And I'm not an amazing composer either.  :)  Just trying to deal with all this music swirling around in my head and trying to make it better.  :) 
2012/11/19 23:30:58
Janet
Dave...(quantumeffect)...your ideas gave me some ideas for the verses. Thanks!  I'm not sure that 'we shared a laugh one day' is strong enough to say 'and my heart melted' but I'll keep thinking about it.  Thanks again!  

(the wine and chocolate is cool but it doesn't work with the meter I've written.  I know you'd know that if you'd hear the tune. But I appreciate the ideas!)  
2012/11/19 23:33:49
The Band19
I'm preparing to decompose as we speak? I hope you don't have anything harsh to come back with like Warren? Why is it that some people get so ticked off so easily over nothing? See there's a good lyric, right there?
2012/11/20 08:56:54
Guitarhacker
Janet


James, the music's written.  The first line came to me pretty much like it is here...with the music.  The rest of it flowed from that, but the words are harder.

I'm in that camp too. The music for me is the easier of the two. Which is one reason I like to work with other people when composing lyric. That is a case of "two heads are better than one".  Pat & I often tend to bounce lyric back and forth 6 to 8 times or more. And we have done rewrites which are second shots at the same song with equally as many bounces. My rule for writing a song and a rewrite of a song is summed up in this: Nothing is sacred.  


When I work on lyrics I generally like to have my guitar and work out the idea musically at the same time I am working it out lyrically. Even if you can't sing well, you can still do what you can because you can hear it in your head...and verbalizing the words while writing helps you to see what fits and what doesn't. 


Approach writing like you are writing a term paper.... yeah I know that sounds crazy and kinda dry for something that is supposed to be from the heart and soul.... but.... Start with the general over all idea of what you want to say in the song..... write it down.  Now, make an outline of the idea with a first verse, second verse, chorus, and just get the outline into a workable series of notes.  Next, write down everything that comes to mind, no matter how "on topic" or "off topic" it might be. 

Song about my loved one.

1 V1: how we met
2. V2: why I was attracted to you
3. Ch: what you mean to me now and why
4. V3 our future together
5. Ch repeat perhaps with a word change to add new dimension to the concept in ch.

From that simple outline.... you see the main topic of each verse and can now write TO that idea.... no wandering aimlessly lyrically. It keeps you on track. 

I used to only write down things I thought were "brilliant lines". Now I write everything.... because that thing you thought was off topic may be the mental clue your brain needed to find that really unique and truly brilliant turn of a phrase.  If you end up in a dead end alley, simply go back to the last place where you were moving forward.... do not discard the dead end lyric.... just remove it and try again. 

More than one time, I have had a dead end that worked brilliantly in a different verse. So don't scrap anything permanently....

There are a number of good writers here in the forums. In addition there are specific forums on the net which focus on the art and skills of writing. My suggestion would be to seek out someone whose writing & lyric skills you like and PM that individual and work with them to write this as a serious collab effort. Here in the forum, you will get suggestions... off line and behind the scenes, you can really get to work and develop this into the best it could be. 
2012/11/20 09:07:24
Guitarhacker
Oh yeah.... another thing..... I'm full of ideas.... 

I went back to the OP to read the lyrics. Major issue that I missed ...and just realized as I re-read the lyric. 

The TITLE. 

If I did not know the title to the song I would never be able to guess it from hearing the song. 

One of the rules is that the title is supposed to be in certain places in the song. Your title appears in one place.... the very first line of verse one and never appears again in the entire song.

The most common place for the title to appear in the song is in the chorus..... normally, it is located in the last line of the song.  depending on the chorus...anywhere in the chorus is acceptable.... first lines in the chorus are the second most common place for the title to appear. 

Less common is to find the title in the verse, but the last line in a verse is a good place to put it IF that is how the song is written AND be sure it is in every verse in the last line AND.... the chorus generally will have it in there too.

I often write a song starting with the title as the idea. I have lots of titles written down for future songs....what hits me at the time....later not so much. 
2012/11/20 09:38:28
Peter Rabbit
 
Hi Janet,
 
I haven't been around for awhile but here's a few things that have helped me.
 
This is my best suggestion and this software has been really helpful to me. If I recall correctly it was about 100 bucks but it's really great. It has everything you can think of for songwriting. Before purchasing it I downloaded the free trial to check it out. After playing with it I just had to have it:
http://www.masterwriter.com/songwriters.html
 
Here's a free website for ryhmes:
http://www.rhymezone.com/
 
 
Sometime entire songs are built around cliches. Here's a free website for cliches.
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/a.html
 
And finally an article about song writing and writing hooks for songs:
http://ezinearticles.com/?Hooks-to-Hits:-The-Key-to-Writing-Songs-That-Sell&id=252357
 
And finally...I still check in from time to time but very rarely post anymore. Quite frankly I've been listening to some of your creations and I think you've been doing an amazing job.
 
Hope this helps.
 
Pete
 
 
2012/11/20 11:21:22
quantumeffect
I am glad I could be an inspiration

Not to derail this thread but awhile back you were involved in some sort home improvement project involving a shed and more specifically a window in the shed (at least I think it was you , and if it wasn’t this probably won’t make any sense) and at the time I thought the window in the shed created a nice visual.  And again, at the time, I remember throwing out a line for a song about a window in the shed.  I went back and dug the word file out last night to discover that there were actually 2 verses so, I guess I spent more time on it than I remember.

Looking at it now, I took the window out of the shed in the verse probably with the intention of adding it back in the chorus (light thru the window, or possible door, on the rusty tools) and I’m guessing by hole, I was thinking metaphorically (some sort of spiritual hole) and not literally a hole to bury a body (but I guess that could an interesting twist for a song).

Well, in any event, the window in your shed was inspiration for this bit of nonsense:

there is a long neglected shed
where those rusty tools are stored
from the days before that guitar
and its hurtful minor chord

when the garden in your backyard
was a place to heal your soul
and you labored in the soil
before you dug that fateful hole
2012/11/20 12:06:23
jamesg1213
If I could make a little suggestion Janet..

The title and some of the lyrics you have share a similar theme to this song; 

Sometimes late at night I lie awake and watch her sleeping
She's lost in peaceful dreams
So I turn out the lights and lay there in the dark
And the thought crosses my mind
If I never wake up in the morning
Would she ever doubt the way
I feel About her in my heart


If tomorrow never comes
Will she know how much I loved her
Did I try in every way to show her every day
That she's my only one
And if my time on earth were through
And she must face this world without me
Is the love I gave her in the past
Gonna be enough to last
If tomorrow never comes '

etc...

What strikes me about your song is that you haven't really explored that idea too much, in fact it doesn't figure in the chorus at all.

As a love song, it's fine, but I think it might be stronger if you expanded on the central idea.

2012/11/20 18:38:16
Janet

Dave, yes, that was me!  And here's the shed.  :)  Now I think it was probably a dumb idea to put the window in the side cause no one ever sees it but me and on the inside, we're just stacking boxes up to the ceiling.  But I probably would have been mad if they wouldn't have let me have my own way.  Life's like that sometimes.  lol  Anyway, cool lyrics.  Glad this little shed could be an inspiration!  :)  (it's unreal to see it so bare...I have to mow and weedwhack around it all summer now.)  :)  





2012/11/20 18:46:36
Janet
Herb, great ideas! Daryl actually mentioned that 'think of the story' idea a few years ago, and that's how I was able to write Born to Fly.  But yeah, this isn't exactly born to be great or anything.  I think the verse could probably be the chorus and maybe should be, cause that's the hook that first came to me.  And yes, that line is never repeated so it's not a good title.  And collabing is definitely a great idea.  Anyway, thanks again.  

Hi Pete!  Thank you!  I'll look up those sites.  Thanks.  Glad to know you're still around, even if it's in stealth mode.  :)  I hope you're doing well!  

James, yes I know that song and just love it.  I know I'll need to get more serious about it if I want to do a really good job.  But it's just for fun and a rare break from work right now.  I have so many irons in the fire I can't keep them all turning well at all.  (I know I'm not the only one in that boat!)  In the meantime, the music's really pretty, IMO.  :)  Thanks for your suggestion!  
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