I enjoyed it, thanks Bub. If you don't like the old Alesis drums, you could probably replace them pretty easily since they are an exact tempo. Cool version, nice guitars.

Thanks everyone for the input.

What I did on this song was, I used a cheap pair of crappy old headphones to mix and master it ... I haven't even listened to it on my HS-80's yet or in my car.

The only plugs I used were Guitar Rig, Pro Channel modules that come with X2, the PC2A Leveler module, Breverb, Melda Free Limiter, and Melda Free Stereo Expander. You should have seen the mix before I reset the desk. I had tons of EQ's and compressors. I don't have a single plugin in any FX bin other than Guitar Rig on some tracks.

It's really a lot of fun working with X2 and I'm getting excellent results with the new Console EMU, plus Breverb.

To me, that's pretty special because I've never been able to get a mix and master completed this fast and have it sound this good in any version of Sonar prior. I really do like X2 a LOT. It's brought the fun back in to this hobby for me!

Thanks again for listening and please ... any and all criticism is appreciated on this mix. It's an experiment using X2 and just a pair of headphones.

As for the drums some of you talked about ... I intentionally added heavy saturation to get it to sit in the mix better. I'll go back and adjust it and warm them up. Now that you guys have brought my attention to it, I hear exactly what you're talking about.

Thanks again!

Bub

Hey Bub. In the Orbison and Elvis tribute band I mentioned we sometimes did a dance set after the show and we often started with Mustang Sally. I did not waste any time laying into it big right from the get go. You have got this clave sound on the snare for the whole song with occasional snare hits and it sounds a bit wimpy. Big kick ass snare beat right from the start. Listen to the recent remakes of this. eg Commitments etc. Drums could be a bit more hard drivin.

This is one of those tunes where the verses are as big or bigger than the choruses and the choruses seem to almost lay back slightly.  

Well since you're asking for mix and master advice...who better than your favorite person on this forum to add some input? LOL!

To be honest, the mix itself level wise is great. I'd not touch a thing. It's clean, clear and everything is audible at all times. The only slightly negative comment I can give you is...it sounds a tad too high passed to me. Like...sort of AM radio sounding with how the low end is curbed. Ok wait, AM radio might be a bit too extreme....I honestly don't mean that in a mean way....I'm trying to think how else I can explain it. Like...it doesn't have the low end impact it needs in my opinion. It kinda sounds like an eq curve you would hear (low end wise only) in the 1950's. You know how they were a bit conservative in the lows back then due to fidelity reasons? That's what I mean.

Bass guitar is good...it's the lack of kick drum/over-all drums and thinning of the drums/cyms that makes it a little small...if that makes sense? Like...I put it on a scope for you. Your bass is right where it needs to be, but your kick drum seems to be putting out more high end "click" energy than it should be. Like, the highest peak I see in this is 95 Hz in the low end. For some power in the low end, 50-75 Hz for your kick drum depending on where you want it to thrust...bass can be 60-90 depending on what you want the bass to be.

For example, you have a nice balanced bass in this that has more "oom" than high end clack. So if I'm you in this situation, I'm going to leave the bass...maybe add a little more 80 Hz depending on what my kick drum outcome may be, and grab a kick drum to thrust at about 60 or so...maybe 55 Hz...depending on if you want a little low end kick thrust. Tighter Q so it doesn't boom out on you. You just want a little sub harmonic boom to it...the clickiness you have there in it sounds like it's hitting at about 4.5 k to me...which I like. I just think you need a little more low end oomph to the mix and maybe not high pass as much if you are.

The other instruments sound a bit tight on high passing as well, but again, if the kick and drums were a little thicker with some meat, you may not need to touch them. It's amazing how a drum kit and a bass can alter the entire sound of the mix on the whole. Once you get the drums and the bass forming a team, then you can make the decision as to whether or not the other instruments need a little more low end.

But from what I hear, it just needs a little less high passing over-all. This can come from cans that may throw out a little too much bass, so it makes you a little more conservative with allowing low end to be present. That said, it's a great mix really...add a little more oomph to it and it will be perfect. Clean as a bell though Bub...which is always a plus in my opinion. Nice job, hope this was the type of feedback you were looking for.

-Danny

Danny Danzi

Well since you're asking for mix and master advice...who better than your favorite person on this forum to add some input? LOL!

 

To be honest, the mix itself level wise is great. I'd not touch a thing. It's clean, clear and everything is audible at all times. The only slightly negative comment I can give you is...it sounds a tad too high passed to me. Like...sort of AM radio sounding with how the low end is curbed. Ok wait, AM radio might be a bit too extreme....I honestly don't mean that in a mean way....I'm trying to think how else I can explain it. Like...it doesn't have the low end impact it needs in my opinion. It kinda sounds like an eq curve you would hear (low end wise only) in the 1950's. You know how they were a bit conservative in the lows back then due to fidelity reasons? That's what I mean.

Bass guitar is good...it's the lack of kick drum/over-all drums and thinning of the drums/cyms that makes it a little small...if that makes sense? Like...I put it on a scope for you. Your bass is right where it needs to be, but your kick drum seems to be putting out more high end "click" energy than it should be. Like, the highest peak I see in this is 95 Hz in the low end. For some power in the low end, 50-75 Hz for your kick drum depending on where you want it to thrust...bass can be 60-90 depending on what you want the bass to be.

For example, you have a nice balanced bass in this that has more "oom" than high end clack. So if I'm you in this situation, I'm going to leave the bass...maybe add a little more 80 Hz depending on what my kick drum outcome may be, and grab a kick drum to thrust at about 60 or so...maybe 55 Hz...depending on if you want a little low end kick thrust. Tighter Q so it doesn't boom out on you. You just want a little sub harmonic boom to it...the clickiness you have there in it sounds like it's hitting at about 4.5 k to me...which I like. I just think you need a little more low end oomph to the mix and maybe not high pass as much if you are.

The other instruments sound a bit tight on high passing as well, but again, if the kick and drums were a little thicker with some meat, you may not need to touch them. It's amazing how a drum kit and a bass can alter the entire sound of the mix on the whole. Once you get the drums and the bass forming a team, then you can make the decision as to whether or not the other instruments need a little more low end.

But from what I hear, it just needs a little less high passing over-all. This can come from cans that may throw out a little too much bass, so it makes you a little more conservative with allowing low end to be present. That said, it's a great mix really...add a little more oomph to it and it will be perfect. Clean as a bell though Bub...which is always a plus in my opinion. Nice job, hope this was the type of feedback you were looking for.

-Danny

Thanks! Yes, this is exactly what I was looking for. This whole 'experiment' was a test of X2 for me. I can't believe how easy it is to get a good mix with it so fast. I've remixed 4 songs this week that I had been tinkering with for literally years. With the Pro Channel working now, and the new console EMU ... oh man. This is going to change everything for me. And the craziest thing about this is ... I'm using the crappy onboard Realtek sound with ASIO4ALL drivers that haven't been updated in 2 years! I had to freeze the tracks with Guitar Rig ... but so far it's handling 14 tracks and 5 buses of the Pro Channel chock full of modules with absolutely no problem.

The drum track on this was done with a preset on an Alesis SR-16 with the drummer trying to do live stuff along with the preset with the touch pads. We recorded it with a stereo to mono cable on one track, so unfortunately all I can do is EQ and Compress the entire drum mix.

I'll go back and tackle the drums today.

Thanks for the input!

Bub.

Jeff Evans

Hey Bub. In the Orbison and Elvis tribute band I mentioned we sometimes did a dance set after the show and we often started with Mustang Sally. I did not waste any time laying into it big right from the get go. You have got this clave sound on the snare for the whole song with occasional snare hits and it sounds a bit wimpy. Big kick ass snare beat right from the start. Listen to the recent remakes of this. eg Commitments etc. Drums could be a bit more hard drivin.

This is one of those tunes where the verses are as big or bigger than the choruses and the choruses seem to almost lay back slightly.

Hi Jeff.

Thanks for your input on this.

Like I said to Danny, it was a preset on an Alesis SR-16 with some live drum hits thrown in. I agree, the drum track leaves a lot to be desired. I tried to use Audio Snap to extract midi data so I could replace the drums, but there was too much going on and it couldn't lock on to a beat. Even though the beat was from a drum machine, it's ripped for analog tape and it does drift, so it's not as simple as figuring out the tempo and using the Step Sequencer.

There were no choruses on this particular recording really. . It was just him singing, sometimes whispering the chorus part as place markers for additional overdubs we planned to do later, but we never finished it. So I had to work with what he did and use V-vocal to tweak some of it in to harmony parts. Amazing what we can do with technology isn't it? :)

Bub, You have about SOLD me on upgrading with all the positive comments LOL  

Looking forward to hear what you do with Danny and Jeffs comments.

You're welcome. I sort of figured that's what you were looking for so I took the gamble. :) Yeah it is a great piece of software, I totally agree. And thank God that thing with pro channel not working is a thing of the past. Thankfully for me, that stopped after one of the patches...but I'll never deny that it DID exist!

Hahaha...funny you mention the Realtek. I can't tell you how many times I've mentioned it in posts and people think I'm nuts. I see nothing wrong with that card for both recording and mixing to be honest. I mean, ok, we both know that it doesn't have the best converters and is a cheap consumer card...but, it does work and to me, I've done some really nice work using it for sketch purposes.

You'll probably notice a difference when you switch back to your faithful recording card though. I know you just moved and probably have it stored away or something..but this is good because if there is a difference, you'll notice it instantly when you run the other card. I've noticed a little difference between the Realtek and my other cards. But only due to the bit/sample rate...at least that's my hunch. I actually like the Realtek better at 16/44 than I like the other good cards I have because it seems to...hmmm...slightly dirt up...no, wait..not really dirt...umm..maybe cloud up a bit or something in a good way? The other cards are super clean. The other cards of course cook it once I move to 24/48...but they just seem too clean at 16/44 for some stuff. I dunno...maybe I just think I hear it. LOL!

Like remember that tune you did with the turn-table simulation? The Realtek would have probably enhanced that a bit for the better due to it being consumer grade and giving you that "dirt under the finger nails" sound...you know, not as clean but in a good way?

Yeah you should be able to salvage those drums....just see if you can add a little low end life back into them and you should be fine. Yeah your hands may be a little tied with the one track thing....I still have faith you can fix them though. Like I say...it's a well balanced mix just as it is. That little extram "oomph" if you can get it though, will definitely bring it over the top. It's not a necessity really...but if you hear what I hear now that I've pointed it out to you, that's where I'd at least experiment.

If you don't hear it needing any low end on your systems, I say leave it man...it stands up well just as is. I just wanted to tell ya what my systems were reporting. I listened on consumer monitors (Logitech X-530) my AKG cans which are pretty true, and of course my Adam A 7's and NS 10's. They all seemed to be missing the same low end...so for me, that's usually a good indication that we can add a little more meat. Still a freakin' great job considering you grabbed an old recording, cleaned it up, used a Realtek and mixed it on cans. Hahaha! Makes ya glad to have this stuff, don't it? :) I hope Sonar keeps running well for you. You've paid your dues ten-fold with issues...time for some smooth sailing.

-Danny

Here's what I hear Bub, FWIW.

Drums seem way to laid back in both level and drive.

What you played on the bass is really cool but it does over power the drums.

So to me, it's either lower the bass or raise the drums.

Nice track. Can't say what hasn't been said about the mix already. I like Bapu noticed the bass and drums needing better balancing. Where was the kick? I didn't notice it there, but I didn't notice not there either.

Low end is very hard to tame even if you're experienced (ie: Danny is, I am not), but the most important thing when mixing is balance.

Nice job again. The improvements will hopefully make it better.