2014/12/04 10:06:08
spacey
....Here...
 
Thought some that may have missed it and would like it. I think it's an excellent article/lesson...one of the best IMO and it seems there have been a lot of them in the mags lately. I know there are guitarists here
that are interested in knowing more about theoritical workings so hope this is good to ya.
 I like his website too.
 
One critique though...I think it's best to end on the root (or 1) too. I think it helps "hearing" when practicing the scales. I'd suggest making that change to his excellent lesson.
 
2014/12/04 13:18:17
jamesg1213
Nice one. Happy to admit I have huge holes in my theory, and I might just try some of these to close 'em up.
2014/12/04 13:28:07
michaelhanson
This is good. I was actually in the process of relearning my modes, so perfect timing, Michael.
2014/12/04 14:00:03
Beepster
Hi , Spacey. Hope you have been well. This is indeed an interesting look at the physical geometry of the modes as they relate to the guitar and I am certainly glad that due to the heavy influence jazz has had on how musicians view music these days that these types of ideas are poking through to the mainstream. Before the emphasis was always on the Major (Ionian) and minor (Aeolian) scales/modes and ommiting all those crucial in between steps of logic that tie them together. Then when discussing what could be easily explained in modal terms to even beginner students theory twisted its way around complicated schemes  involving chords and cadences. Kind of like only teaching someone how to count to ten using only the numbers 1, 6 and 10 then expecting them to learn how to add, subtract, divide, multiply, find the square root of potato and so on based on that. Very silly.
 
I do still find it disheartening that when these more through, accurate and, IMO, simpler and linear approaches to theory are explained they are always associated with jazz which I think in many ways intimidates students. When one thinks of jazz theory and they are not familiar with it it conjures up images of ultra complex and highly advanced techniques and concepts. I think more traditional theory and methods are the more confusing and erratic and inhibit not just guitar players but musicians in general. Us as guitar players then tend to have a harder time because we don't have a linear and preorganized/preordained sequence of notes on our instruments like single note instruments like brass or woodwinds or the piano where you can just create keys by adding and subtracting the amount of black keys you use then applying it across the entire keyboard.
 
Modern modal theory is the full picture of the diatonic/twelve tone system we use in all western music. The only difference between genres is what is added, taken away and occasionally slightly altered (like happens with harmonic and melodic minors and their relative modes both of which are completely based on the standard modes created by the Major scale with only one note modified) and the rhythm/timbre the notes are played with.
 
I think the the article you linked to is a useful one for physically learning the various patterns the modes create on guitar but I think they really should have emphasized more the importance of placing the patterns into their proper order after they have been learned. On top of that they should have explained that although these patterns when played from root on the low E string to the double octave on the high E string that each of the patterns contains all seven modes.
 There is also the matter of how the flat/sharp keys are formed in 1st position which severely alters these patterns and since they specifically mentioned jazz theory and a lot of jazz theory is written in those odd keys due to horn parts and whatnot it could lead to some serious frustration.
 
All in all... awesome find and extremely encouraging to see the educational community finally analysing guitar theory in this manner. I agree any guitar players here should take a look at this article and perhaps the forum hosts could make this a dual sub forum thread (instead of simply moving it) so it can be in both the CH and the Techniques forums.
 
This type of intensive theory is actually what has been keeping me busy and away from the forum (but I am lurking). If you liked this article I am working on something that explores every nook and crannie of exactly these types of topics and I intend to share it with my friends here first before releasing it to the world at large. It's a lot of work though but I think it'll be worth it.
 
Take care. I'll be off furiously lurking in the corner. ;-)
2014/12/04 14:13:49
spacey
Hi Beep, thanks, I've been doing very well and hope you have too.
I find you're 4th paragraph interesting because I think it is a perfect example of how people
can see something very differently or what may work better for them.
 
I don't agree with his "practice" listing and would recommend this one;
 
01. Play through all three major modes: Lydian-Ionian-Mixolydian from one root note. Repeat in 12 keys.
02. Play through all four minor-based modes: Dorian-Aeolian-Phrygian-Locrian from one root note.
04. Put on a major chord backing-track, such as C, and solo over this chord moving between Lydian, Ionian and Mixolydian to hear how these modes color a major chord in a soloing situation.
05. Repeat this soloing exercise but put on an Am backing track and solo between A Dorian, Aeolian, Phrygian and Locrian.
 
 
03. Play all seven major modes in the order presented at the start of this lesson from one root note.
 
 
I would also use the C major scale in 8th position should I be showing this to a student.
I like starting with a key that has no accidentals.
The reason I changed the order of his practice session is because I think "listening" is paramount and staying in one key until the exercise is absorbed totally is important. Just my 2.
 
When one has a good handle on it then it is cool to move to the other keys.
 
 
2014/12/04 14:39:34
bapu
heh heh. spacey said Am
2014/12/04 14:45:39
spacey
bapu
heh heh. spacey said Am




I wondered about that... and then I remembered.....uh....sorry, I forgot what it was.
 
2014/12/04 14:51:36
Beepster
That is an excellent sequence, Spacey and I've contemplated including a similar scheme to the method I'm writing but later on in the series after the linear sequence of the modes has been initially established. That way going throuhg the sequence as you have described would show the relationship between the I, IV and V of both the Major and minor scales.
 
The only exception being (and you probably already noticed the omission) is the Locrian mode. For that I would not use a minor chord but a diminished chord. Not a metal style voicing with the 5th over the root but the I, III, V to get the true flavor of the triad produced by locrian. I always like to make sure that the 7th mode is viewed as the oddball of the pattern which sets up standard Major modal chord theory quite nicely and then serves to show how drastically different the triad sequence of the harmonic and melodic minor modes are (which introduce augmented chords and then 6th chords because they sound better then the augmented in series).
 
I also think the vii to I chord cadence is a nice way to explain the concept of the "leading note". It's a pretty familar sounding chord jump for the end of songs as a little post song flourish. What does annoy me though is how difficult the actual low E string to high E string chord formation is for the dimished chord which makes it more difficult in relation to the Major and minor chords on guitar but I have ways around that.
 
Now here's a question for you... how and when would you deal with concept of 7ths in relation to the modes while dealing with a newcomer to modal theory? I always kind of want to point it out when dealing with the actual tone/semitone structure but considering how many other ideas are floating around I think it is best to leave it to a separate chord study that points to the scale structure study as a reference.
 
Cheers.
2014/12/04 14:53:35
Beepster
I relative minor of C Major sorry for being a dork in the CH.
 
2014/12/04 15:02:33
michaelhanson
Beepster, I greatly look forward to what you are working on. I have always been basically a rhythm player and have just started in the last couple of years to learn to solo. I felt that I may have started off on the wrong foot, so I was just recently starting to go back and take a look at scales and modes, rethink what I have been playing.
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