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  • Want to hear from KH Concert Strings users (p.2)
2014/12/18 08:32:29
John
musichoo
I don't have KH strings but I have KH Diamond Orchestra. 60 gigs worth of download. Took me a week to download all. Only at my free time, not 24 hours a day. 
 
Don't know if this is relevant to you. They always have samples with and without reverb. During composition I use to wet version and during mix down I use the dry version.
 
This is the result.
https://www.youtube.com/w...Lr5jMKP7D9ky8ehrHF2BGA


That was exquisite! I don't care what stuff you used the composition was inspired. The performance was superb.
 
I most often turn down a song posted via the forum. In this case I turned it up!!!!   
 
Now as a Sonar user I am delighted with how you presented the song.  Man, do you have talent!!!
 
Let me know how I can buy your stuff. I hope you have a CD or MP3 s an album wouldn't hurt.  
2014/12/18 08:46:37
musichoo
670 is on pianoteq. I was using the piano preset with minor tweaking. The choir is kontakt. Thanks for listening.
2014/12/18 15:22:06
Sycraft
bitflipper
That was my best guess based on a reading of the manual, so thanks for confirming that, GB.
 
So what's with all the redundant libraries, e.g. TVEC2, TVEC3, TVEC4? They all seem to have the same .nki names. I know they're different samples and obviously different scripting, but are they really that different?

 
Just different scripting. They get better (more powerful and such) with each version. Old versions are for compatibility. The "ESA" aka Easy String Arranger is the newest stuff, TVEC4 the previous version. Either should be fine.
 
To get started, presuming you've a good bit of RAM and such, load up the stuff in 00_cs2_ESA_All_Instruments. That loads up the latest version with the full, half, quarter, and solo instruments all in RAM. The instruments you are looking for are the all articulations one. So like 1st Violins 16,8,4,1 Players All Articulations.nki
 
To start, set it to whole division, turn on divisi live (which will auto split down to half division when you play two notes, and stay at whole division for one note), and set the articulation to AcentPP or AccentMF, which will put a bit of an accent at the start of the note, there's a rotary wheel called Stacatto on the right side controlling the kind. Marcato or Spicatto are good choices to start. If you are going to use an external reverb, find the drop down that says "EarlyRef Vol 3" and turn it to Reverb Off. If not, play around with the settings and use the one you like.
 
That should get you a decent playable sound out of the gate. Make sure to play with divisi live on and off to see if you like it, and also try different section sizes.
2014/12/18 15:47:08
bapu
mike_mccue
Bapu told me to use Ernie Ball super slinkys.

Bu the trick is to use DGDF#Ab tuning. That's the chit I tells ya.
2014/12/19 10:42:26
bitflipper
Thanks for the CS2 advice, guys.
 
The download finally completed yesterday, sooner than projected because some of the last files were small.
 
Note to subsequent travelers: the installation instructions are out of date. I ended up with more folders than the instructions said I should have. There are a LOT of files, so it would be nice if there was some sort of sanity check.
 
I unzipped all the files to their default locations, as instructed. Apparently, this is incorrect. Every instrument I load brings up the "missing samples" dialog and I have to point it to the top-level folder so Kontakt will find them. That's OK, as I've been saving the ones I've found useful in a separate Favorites folder anyway.
 
I initially chose 4 instruments as my starting point: the 16/8/4/1-players TVEC3 1st violins, 1st violas, cellos and basses. Probably not the best choice ultimately, as I'm only using full and half divisions, but I was able to get going quickly and have them sounding pretty good with minimal fuss.
 
I only had one issue while replacing the ST3 violins, stemming from the way TVEC re-purposes the pitch wheel, making it impossible to program in your own pitch bends. This may work differently for the solo instruments, so I'll be checking that out today. If that doesn't work I'll go back to ST3's violin sample for that specific part.
 
The keyswitching is a bit clumsy. They're different for each instrument. Some are above the instrument's pitch range and some are below. They are in reverse order from how they're listed in the UI, which sometimes confuses me. Worst of all, they are not highlighted on the virtual keyboard, as is the norm in most other sample libraries, so I do a lot of searching around.
 
Of course, you can remap the keyswitches, or use MIDI CCs instead. I've just placed the keyswitches in a separate MIDI track so they're a different color in the PRV and that makes it easier.
 
I had one weird experience yesterday that I've not encountered before: a sudden, extremely loud continuous blast of noise that made me scramble for my monitors' power switch. It appears to be coming from Kontakt - I got brave and reproduced it at low volume and it went away when I muted Kontakt. I suspect this may be due to the extreme amount of RAM I'm using for this project. I'll know after I've started bouncing tracks for mixing.
 
All in all, I'm quite pleased with this purchase. It'll be my go-to string library henceforth, and I intend to buy SC3 next year - even if it means having to upgrade Kontakt.
 
Big thanks to Jim (jimusic) for suggesting it! (Jim, I'm only a couple hours away...next time you're going down I-5 stop by and lunch is on me.)
 
 
2014/12/19 13:51:25
wst3
you see to be on your way - sorry I did not spot this sooner!
 
I use KH Diamond, CS2, CB2, and Spotlight strings, and have for several years now.
 
Some thoughts to get you up to speed quickly...
 
1) use the combination patches, e.g. all articulations, all sections, and purge them completely before you start. Then add only the articulations and/or sections you need. Big time saver, and sometimes sanity saver (that lovely noise - I've heard it!)
2) don't wrestle with the included impulses. There are a couple that are quite good, but mostly they aren't - not sure if that is the impulses themselves, or the Kontakt engine, but you'll work faster if you use the reverbs that you know and love.
 
3) workflow - there are probably a dozen ways to use CS2... I create two MIDI tracks, one for the five parts (Vln1, Vln2, Vla, Vc, and Bass), and one for key-switches. Used to use 10 tracks, and there are some advantages, but lately I'm using MIDI channels to separate things, and it is working out quite nicely.
 
4) The strings are recorded very intimately. Which is cool, you can create a wide array of sounds, but be very aware of timing, as it will change as you apply effects, or rather it will seem to change. It doesn't really.
 
5) The Adagio patch is really good for roughing things in, then go back and play with the other articulations.
 
6) If you don't need the legato leave it off for this project. Many of the other patches do a really convincing job of legato, and getting the Smart Legato to behave was on of my bigger frustrations. UGH!
 
FWIW I picked up 8Dio Agitato and Adagietto this year, and I find I am using KH CS2 less, but it is still in the template, and it still gets used. Several of the CS2 articulations layer beautifully with the 8Dio strings.
 
Of all the cool tricks that 8Dio use, by far and away the coolest (to my ears) is their dynamic bowing patches. Imagine if you will capturing the actual speed and direction changes in the recorded samples. I know, we are all quite used to using CC1, CC11, and others to simulate these things, but I have to say, I used the dynamic bowing patches for the first time this morning, and I'm blown away at the results. If I were in a hurry I could skip over the polishing phase entirely, I won't, but  could, it sounds that good right out of the box.
 
I got a LOT of mileage out of Kirk's libraries, and expect that I will get a lot more, I will probably upgrade to CS3 when funds allow. The current libs require a little more work than some newer offerings, but that's to be expected as developers extend the whole concept of sampled instruments. But I still like the KH libraries, they will serve you well.
 
In the meantime, if you run into challenges, and the schedule doesn't provide the luxury of digging around pm me or post and I'll be glad to answer what I can. I'm guessing I've hit many of the challenges already<G>!
2014/12/19 18:53:07
bitflipper
Thanks to Sycraft for suggesting DivisiLive. That's pretty slick.
 
Thank you Bill for the excellent practical advice. I'm already in the habit of purging Kontakt libraries, a habit gained out of necessity working for so long with insufficient RAM. But it's especially helpful for these large libraries when you've got a bunch of instruments loaded up (I'm currently using 5 instruments after adding 2nd violins). Purging can drop the RAM load by 80% (!) if you're only using a few articulations.
 
Yes, I found out what you mean about the "smart" legato. It required a little side-trip of reading and experimentation to figure out what it's doing and how to make it stop doing it so aggressively. 
 
Thanks for the offer of help. I will take you up on it if the need arises!
2014/12/19 20:28:37
lawajava
Glad it's working for you no wand you have a few days to scramble to put your piece(s) together.

In the future, if you do move to Kontakt 5 or better, Spotlight Strings from KH are really nice.
2014/12/22 01:02:15
jimusic
bitflipper
Big thanks to Jim (jimusic) for suggesting it! (Jim, I'm only a couple hours away...next time you're going down I-5 stop by and lunch is on me.)
 

Thanks Bit. If I'm ever down that way, I'll let ya know ahead of time. It'd be a pleasure to meet you. Your knowledge and advice here on the forums is legendary, so maybe you'll be able to 'un-stupid'  me just a little tiny bit. 
 
My download was fairly reasonable time wise.
I didn't have the troubles that you've had starting out, so I was a bit concerned for ya when reading though this post, but between the good advice given here and your starting points, it looks like your off to a good start anyway.
It's quite a good library, and I think you'll be cruisin' along with it in no time at all.
At first, it looked a bit confusing and even a bit overwhelming, but it's gets really easy and comfortable fairly quickly after just clicking around a bit with it and seeing the other pages & options.
 
I do hope it serves you well.
2014/12/23 00:13:50
Fleer
Bit, if you haven't already, put the old Miroslav in your ST3. It works fine.
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