They provide no support for their products at all and their "fixes" are a bit of a joke.

hmmm, interesting ... poor support seems to be the common denominator in software business these days, but unfortunately across all types of businesses ... well, good support costs a lot of money and that hurts shareholder value ... i hate to sound like a bloody communist, but I've seen too many smart people being made redundant for cost cutting reasons ...

The digital mixer concept works because it is not necessarily aligned to any particular software. It can be set up in a such a way as to not be software specific. 

The 02R96 is discontinued now and this the replacement model. At around $10,000 it is fairly hefty investment mind you are getting a hell of a lot of mixer though.

http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global/en/products/mixers/dm2000vcm/features.jsp

I like the 01v96i because it represents a good chunk of what say the DM2000 can do but at much more affordable price point. $2400. And combined with some pres to ADATs you can expand the number of inputs very easily.

We might be in for some interesting controllers with a lot of touch control that will have the ability to set themselves up for anything. Combined with a small digital mixer set-up could be powerful as well. I would like to see a digital mixer control surface combined with a touch screen that can we set to control anything. eg build up a complete template set of controls for all the Pro Channel modules in X2. Roland could make a great studio digital mixer with touch control surface for software control but they may also not want to go down that hardware path either. 

Or do we order that Failrlight 30A for $20,000 and just down behind the big amazing behemoth and get on with making music!

Haha Jeff... roll on the Fairlight BEAST I say!
 
What you say about the digital mixer option is very true and highlights exactly the only concern I had about the 700 and it's dedicated hardware to Sonar as it was released at that time. The ability to reprogram those keys would go a LONG way let alone basic function for X2.

$2400 from where? Is that the US price online?

I'm wondering too about the Yamaha with respect to transport.... I'm sure I would miss that so how do you go with regards to transport Jeff?

Also do you find fader automation works fine? Faders follow ok etc?

I'm surprised about the Tascam too.... they looked good especially for the coin. I would have thought the Tascam option would have the same typical issues that going Yamaha would also have with respect to driving 'other' software such as Sonar?

Cheers!

Hi Mully and others interested in the digital mixer concept. Yes sorry about the price, it is a US price. It is selling for about $3300 here but I think you could get it for around $3000 if you tried. Especially in Melbourne, they are willing to deal a bit. I think even at that price it is a lot of power you are getting for the money. Now for another $600 or so you could get into the Behringer X32 which could also be made to work with a DAW in a studio situation if you wanted it to. I use Studio One and they have recently made it easier to interface with almost any controller.  A good approach IMO.

I have got Sonar 8.5 to work fine getting transport signals from my digital mixer. With mine (the older model)  there are no special transport buttons. The 'Select' buttons for the first six channels become transport controls when switched into that mode. I prefer to use the QWERTY keyboard for transport operations and leave the first six channels 'Select' buttons as normal. The 01V96i does have a set of buttons (as does the X32 as well) that can be programmed to do this and Sonar should respond to it fine. I also have a set of transport controls on one of my M Audio keyboards and that comes in handy too. I have got the QWERTY set up very nicely with keyboard commands. 

With automation you can leave the stems returns from Sonar alone (ie digitial mixer inputs) and automate in your DAW as you would expect. Because a digital connection is being used there are no signal to noise issues. But you can also leave the Bus outs on your DAW alone and automate the mixer inputs instead. This does work very well with all your moves being recorded and edited just like normal automation. That comes up in your lane automation. Every move you make and any controller you touch is being sent over midi. You can also draw the mixer automation if desired. You can automate in the DAW and the mixer obviously. You can also store complex scenes and just get your DAW to switch (and fade) the scenes as the arrangement follows. 

I tend to (automate in the DAW) but sometimes ride the stems manually during mixdown and make some mixer moves here and there. You can still perform on the mixer like an instrument. Presonus have got some cool digital mixers that work in partnership with their software. Roland could make something fantastic if they wanted to. Their PA digital mixers are excellent and wonderful to use. That technology could be carried over into a DAW controller and combined studio digital mixer. A large touch screen could be part of it now. Not all touch but a hybrid in conjunction with some faders, rotary encoders and switches etc.. But with a heap of mic pres and some serious DSP and all the analog to digital conversion thrown in.

Interesting stuff Jeff... the way of getting automation intrigues me as I'm only interested in the simple way like I have now...not sure if that is in essence the same or relies on MIDI lanes?

I thought also you might say that is how you do your transport. I thought a dedicated transport control just for this duty. I'm keeping an eye in the X32 also as it seems to have some incredible features particularly with the Midas association now....interesting.

I agree also that Roland could do a killer surface if they chose to but I don't think it is happening anytime soon.

Given that you use Studio One now, what makes you stay with it over Sonar? I looked at their surface options too and thought it may be an option if considering a DAW jump... is it really that much better as to warrant the platform change and if so, then why not just jump to the PT train and get it over with (if that makes sense given what it is like in Oz to be a non-PT devotee)?

Thanks again for the detailed info!

Cheers!

Check this if you mind guys, kinda interesting and printed in august 2012...

http://cms.rolandus.com/assets/media/pdf/computer_music_product_guide_2012.pdf

Look like what Crg talked about some months ago.

The VS-700 is there and is advertised as paired with X1.

Good brochure... hadn't seen that one before. Thanks for the share Dyo.
Cheers.

Apparently the VS-700 is not dead yet. I have to take back earlier posts saying it's not sold here anymore - found some online retailers in Germany who claim to deliver it within 3-6 days ...

Anyway, just read a post that cake hasn't updated the MCU control dll since 2006 (!) and as we all know the VS-700 wasn't seriously touched since 8.5.3, but I believe that cake will soon be forced by the opposition to tackle that subject. Cubase 7 (launching in Dec) is annoucing seamless support for all major control surfaces. Whether or not it'll work as promised we'll never know, BUT it is a strong argument for software sales, especially now that Cubase has caught up with cutting egde Sonar features like the pro channel.

I keep my fingers crossed that we'll see our VS-700 issues addressed with X2b (or X2c at the latest). What the competition does is way more important than the constant moaning of users in a forum

Yamaha just stepped into the arena, when Yamaha does something they do it big with no lackluster support and full software/hardware integration. Check out the new grand daddy of them all the new NUAGE. A marriage between the Nuendo DAW software and a dedicated hardware controller! http://www.yamahaproaudio...cts/daw_systems/nuage/ They copied Roland's idea but decided to take the idea a step further. Everybody is starting to copy Roland's VS700 idea, but while Roland is falling out of the business I guess, all the other companies are about capitalize on the idea to perfection. If I had the money to buy the Yamaha Nuendo system, I'd buy it without a heartbeat. I know it'll cost $100k or close to it probably.

yup, just watched the video. definitely looks nice and pricy ... I reckon the only cheap thing in the entire package would be the sound track that they put on this video ...