I do have a small bit of insight with adobe but it is small. I meet with developers there regularly but rarely talk to the people behind decisions like subscription model. I do know that Adobe has ALWAYS tried tactics to discourage skipping upgrades. It did not really affect me until they acquired Macromedia (makers of flash, dreamweaver, fireworks) and I went to upgrade. I went from a very modest differnence in upgrade to Adobe only allowing upgrade price for immediate previous version ONLY. Pissed me off royally since they basically told a long time customer the only way to upgrade was to be a new customer again.

This is only my personal opinion but I think when they offered the choice of buying outright or cloud, too many chose the former for their tastes so they eliminated the option. I think Adobe won the short term battle by attrition, but may lose the war as more competitors make truly alternative products. There are better products than afyer affects on the market but are so muchmore expensive. A sub-$1000 Nuke would make AE far less attractive as a forced subscription. In any case, Cakewalk has a less form grip on the average musician's short and curlies than Adobe..

SteveStrummerUK

spacey

SteveStrummerUK
 
   I'm certain that we would all consider that at a 'certain' price, the subscription model would appear then more appealing than the purchasing model.
 
 
 

If you think Cakewalk offering me a subscription and me saying no means that I've considered it, your right. Anything other than that and you are mistaken.
 
Reason being; X3e is the first stable version along with the first computer that has managed to process everything I wanted to be able to do.
But nothing lasts forever and since I can't tell the future and see no reason that I shouldn't be good for years with what I have there is no way I know what will be offered and/or what I'd consider.
 
I'm also not concerned about Cake going in that direction. I'm really more interested in what they can do with the new version/update to make the updating price worth it. They may have shot themselves in the foot making X3 so good.
It is the first time that I thought I might miss an update. I'm not in that group of needing to have a thousand plug-ins or a problem with the way X3 looks so they're going to have to implement something very sweet to even warrant me paying to update X3. 
Never had a DAW before that I didn't want it fooled with.
 
 
 

I appreciate what you're saying Mike, but surely there must be a monthly subscription price you'd eventually give in at? Even if you tried a new version out for a couple of months to see what it offers, as you say, you'd still have your version of X3 to fall back on.
 
Mind you, I still have my ancient, yet beloved version of Cakewalk Guitar Tracks 2 (from around 2002 if memory serves me correctly) running happily on this (Win 7) PC! Even though it's pretty basic by SONAR standards (we're talking just 8 tracks of audio, no bussing and no MIDI compatibility), I reckon I could still knock up a half-decent tune using it
 
 

 
 
It took many, many years to get to X3 and a computer that had enough power to handle everything I wanted to do and then it finally happened. Cakewalk, Windows7 and the power of the PC finally came together -and all around the same time and for the first time there was amazing performance.
No conflicts with other intense software I enjoy using such as Vegas Pro and Spectrasonics stuff. Never could say that before X3, Win7 and a powerful PC.
 
No Steve, I won't be dealing with subscriptions from Cake or anybody else.
 
I imagine there are folks content with Guitar Tracks 2 or 8.5. I'm happy for them. ( I too go back to Guitar Trks 2)
 
I'm very content with the system I have and as I stated- Cake is going to have to do something really slick to cause me to even upgrade or mess with this DAW and subscribe is not even in the picture...currently there is just not one reason and I can't imagine them giving me one.
 
I've upgraded since Guitar Tracks 2 because either I couldn't do what I wanted or there was trouble with the software or hardware....always something wrong. Good software and the hardware wouldn't run it...good hardware and the software was crap...always something until now.
 
But none of that has do with a subscription to software. Some will be fine with it. I'll be fine without it and if that's the only choice given- they'll be fine without me. Everybody will be happy.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

ah ha …..now I understand why there is all this subscription talk .
a very thoughtful forum member sent me a PM with the link for the survey (which I took ) ...
 
well  , if they really want to know what people really think ….forget the survey ....just read all the posts the survey brought up  apparently the survey kicked up a lot of strong feelings  …..AYE CARAMBA 
 
anyway , heres where I stand ….
I absolutely refuse to get all worked up about this topic ….in any way , shape or form ….
all the anger and frustration this topic may bring up is a luxury I simply cannot afford at this point in my life ..
a little over a year ago ,
I went out and bought a mid level consumer Win 8 machine , X3 PE and a 2i4 usb card …
then I had to go out and get a few other things just to round things off...
OK , so now I caught up a little bit ,  it is very possible that I will never see a return on the money I had to spent just to be at my current level of the lower rungs of the technological digital musical revolution ….
 
Regarding that part , I went in with my eyes open , this was a choice I was willing to make at the time i made it ...
 
I'm simply not willing to go and do the whole subscription thang , it is not the way I do things ….
 
Kenny
 
 
 
 

What is unclear to me is, what happens if I stop paying the subscription fees? Does the program stop working after a while or what? If I can continue with current version normally, then it's not that terrible, unless I, say, lose the  upgrade price option. 
If, however, I'm tied to pay as long as I want to be able to use the projects I've created, then it's next to criminal.
That would make switching to another DAW quite expensive, too, if you must keep paying just because you may need the projects in the future. Also, many of you have several DAWs installed. If they all use subscription-mode, the total cost for the ones you use only occasionally, can get relatively high.

One of the companies that provides software for my industry sells the software outright at a reasonable price. It comes with 12 months of support and free updates. Of course, the updates are once a year at most.
 
What they started a few years back was a "service subscription" that provided you with free updates and new features as they wrote and released them as well as totally free tech support for problems.  The cost for the service contract is $100/year.  Since this is billing software for my business, having problems resolved quickly is paramount. The several times I have had problems or just questions, a simple call, 10 seconds on hold, and the problem or question resolved with professionalism in a few minutes is worth the cost.
 
However, regarding software that one uses for a hobby, I think there would be a mass exodus from the company's new products if a subscription service was instituted. I don't mind upgrading from time to time but to have to fork out a subscription monthly..... no way. 
 
BTW: I purchased a songwriter's program called MasterWriter.... and upgraded to MW2.0.... now they have come out with MW3.0 and it is not available as far as I can see as a purchase. Subscription only.  So I will be a MW2.0 user from this point on.
 
AS far as my DAW.... it's XP pro 32 bit with X1e and will likely stay that way. I will repair it as it dies, and attempt to keep it running as long as I can. I have all the original disks and install keys..... so why not?

RE: Adobe.
 
Like dubdisciple, my knowledge of Adobe is only second-hand (my brother works there).
 
My impression is that the subscription model has been grudgingly accepted by their core base, which is professional video editors (who don't buy software out of their own pockets). At the same time, it's taken the company completely out of the running for the much larger market of casual users. But that was their strategy all along - acquiring Cool Edit Pro was to fill a hole in their flagship video-editing package.
 
I doubt they'd ever consider doing such a thing with Photoshop, with its much broader audience, of which only a minority are professional users.
 
Adobe also has some highly specialized markets, too. Like Linotype software and embedded Postscript interpreters for printers. These have always been a pay-as-you-go license kind of deal. Similarly, if you want to use the Acrobat developer's library you'll pay an annual fee for that privilege as well. I imagine the same is true for Flash and ColdFusion. The point being that you can get away with annuity payments if your user base is firmly locked into your product.
 

kennywtelejazz
 
I absolutely refuse to get all worked up about this topic ….in any way , shape or form ….
all the anger and frustration this topic may bring up is a luxury I simply cannot afford at this point in my life ..
 
 
Kenny 

You hit it on the head Kenny. People can guess just anything they want but there are also things that people know.
 
I don't understand why someone would get worked up about something that hasn't happened and haven't noticed if anyone has.
 
It reminds me of a conversation I had with my mother-in-law years ago; One of my friends wife had done something that was in effort to help her husband but it was done in a low-down way and caused a lot of trouble. It was brought up at the dinner table (because it did make the local paper) and I stated, " I sure wouldn't have done it that way". My MIL barked at me, "you don't know what you would have done!". I said; "you're correct. I don't know what I would have done but I do know what I wouldn't have done."
 
Things happen in life to folks that give them reason(s) to make decisions the way they see right. It doesn't mean they get upset about it. It means they've been down a road before or they understand why things would not work for them.
 
Line 6 is like that for me. I will never again have any of their equipment or software in my life. Not upset about it and never will be. Don't care if others buy their stuff or buy the whole company or the whole thing goes up in a flaming fart. So, I don't know what I may buy in the future but I can tell you that you could make a for sure bet that it won't have their name on it.  Yep, a smile Kenny. Consumers have that right and don't have to explain themselves to anybody and that's surely not something to get upset about.
 
 
 

Kalle Rantaaho
What is unclear to me is, what happens if I stop paying the subscription fees? Does the program stop working after a while or what? If I can continue with current version normally, then it's not that terrible, unless I, say, lose the  upgrade price option. 
If, however, I'm tied to pay as long as I want to be able to use the projects I've created, then it's next to criminal.
That would make switching to another DAW quite expensive, too, if you must keep paying just because you may need the projects in the future. Also, many of you have several DAWs installed. If they all use subscription-mode, the total cost for the ones you use only occasionally, can get relatively high.

Hi Kalle
 
Following on from the excellent insights about Adobe from Dub and Bit, I've just spent 20 minutes or so talking to Adobe Customer Support.
 
Obviously, this may not apply to all companies and all subscription models, but this is what they had to say:

1. If you do not renew your subscription:
   • The software will run in demo mode for 30 days, unless you have already used it in demo mode, in which case it will run for the number of days you had left on your demo period.
   • Once the demo period expires, the software remains on your PC, but when you try to run it, you are presented with a splash screen that requires you to start another subscription before the product will open and function.
2. Minimum Subscription period:
   • All their subscription plans are for one year. You can elect to pay monthly or annually; the annual 'upfront' charge works out slightly cheaper.
   • If you fail to make a monthly payment during the annual period, or if you wish to cancel your subscription before the end of the annual contract, you forfeit 50% of the remaining monthly subscription remaining (or if you paid an annual subscription, they will only refund you 50% of the amount you haven't used).

 
Apparently, it gets even more complicated if you subscribe to any of the plans that are bundled with online storage and user-run web pages (to advertise your business/showcase your work).
 
The minimum subscription period, coupled with the 50% forfeit, is implemented to stop users simply subscribing for a month at a time here and there.
 
Any Adobe software you already own a perpetual licence for (i.e. you bought the software before taking up a subscription plan) is not affected in any way; it will continue to work for as long as you have it installed regardless of any subscriptions you start, or subsequently cancel.
 
Part of my thinking about giving the Photography Plan a go for a year is based on the knowledge that if I decide to stop subscribing, all my image files will still open, and be completely editable in the versions of Lightroom and Photoshop Elements I actually own.
 
So, in your example, as long as you already own software that can open the files, you would be able to fall back on that once the subscription software stops working.
 
I'm guessing that problems might start to arise in some subscription plans if the files a particular software uses are not backwardly compatible. A good example might be if Cakewalk implemented a updated version of their proprietary Project File if they launched SONAR X4 as a subscription model. If the new project file format was not backwardly compatible, you wouldn't be able to open any projects created in X4 in X3 (and previous).
 
Incidentally, it's not impossible to conceive this could happen as they did change from .wrk (work) and .bun (bundle) files a while back to .cwp (project) and .cwb (bundle) files. However, as far as I can recall, they have made every effort to enable the newer software to open these old file formats.
 
I would assume most subscription plans from other companies would run along similar lines.

 
@ Mike
 
Would you mind being a little less vague and try to be a bit more concise?
 
Are you trying to say you wouldn't move to a subscription model

Kalle Rantaaho
What is unclear to me is, what happens if I stop paying the subscription fees? Does the program stop working after a while or what? If I can continue with current version normally, then it's not that terrible, unless I, say, lose the  upgrade price option. 
If, however, I'm tied to pay as long as I want to be able to use the projects I've created, then it's next to criminal.
That would make switching to another DAW quite expensive, too, if you must keep paying just because you may need the projects in the future. Also, many of you have several DAWs installed. If they all use subscription-mode, the total cost for the ones you use only occasionally, can get relatively high.

The way I understand it:
You will not have the software on your computer. Your computer will only be a gateway to the subscription's server. That server will carry the software. Without connection to that server you will not be able to work on your project.
The positive view:
IfI understand correctly, one could get by with a low end computer and be able to hook-up to the subscription's server and use their high end computer. The subscriber will not have to worry about updating drivers, new versions, new operating systems.
There are some interesting posibilities here. Of course, it would be nice to have the choice of subscription or hard copy but it wasn't so with Adobe. I was told I have the last version of Photoshop that will be available for purchase. Future versions will only be available via subscription.