HTML Producer X5a?

craigb
HTML Producer X5a?

with skylight.

Beagle

craigb
HTML Producer X5a?

with skylight.

And, as we all know, skylight's leak.

I agree it's super annoying.
 

sharke
 
You'd think web designers would have fixed this issue by now. Or is it impossible? I can't see why the browser couldn't work out the size of all page elements first and create placeholder boxes which would retain their size as each element was loaded. Would this be possible somehow?

It's not impossible but probably not worth sinking the time to fix it for every browser flavor and variation. 
 
In theory - it is supposed to work exactly as you describe the stylesheet or inline style rules would dictate the page layout. In practice things like not specifying image dimensions or injecting content with javascript will trigger a repaint when the image is downloaded and the dimensions are calculated.
 
We use both PageSpeed and YSlow to measure and tinker with page render times on our sites. Google has an entire page dedicated to reflow: https://developers.google.com/speed/articles/reflow
 
Responsive and "mobile" sites can make it even trickier. The user flips their phone and it triggers a repaint.

Willy Jones [Cakewalk]
I agree it's super annoying.
 

sharke
 
You'd think web designers would have fixed this issue by now. Or is it impossible? I can't see why the browser couldn't work out the size of all page elements first and create placeholder boxes which would retain their size as each element was loaded. Would this be possible somehow?

It's not impossible but probably not worth sinking the time to fix it for every browser flavor and variation. 
 
In theory - it is supposed to work exactly as you describe the stylesheet or inline style rules would dictate the page layout. In practice things like not specifying image dimensions or injecting content with javascript will trigger a repaint when the image is downloaded and the dimensions are calculated.
 
We use both PageSpeed and YSlow to measure and tinker with page render times on our sites. Google has an entire page dedicated to reflow: https://developers.google.com/speed/articles/reflow
 
Responsive and "mobile" sites can make it even trickier. The user flips their phone and it triggers a repaint.

Well it's good to know that it's a talked about issue anyway. I would disagree that it's not worth working on these issues though. User experience should be a priority at the consumer level at least. It just seems that, despite the amazing advances in computing power and the complexity of the software which comes along with it, user experience is not keeping up. I get frustrated with interfaces every day - sluggishness, unresponsiveness, not doing what they're supposed to be doing etc. Many hair-tearing experiences using my iPhone for example. I look forward to a day in which everything is brain powered and operates at the speed of light (with no bugs) 

This is one of the many reasons I'm trying to keep things as simple as possible with my site design. The less scripts and doodads the less this type of stuff happens and since it annoys me to no end it would be kind of hypocritical of me to make my own visitors endure it.
 
That said... I'm surprised you guys aren't using NoScript. It stops pretty much all that crap and just loads the fundamentals. You'd think that would screw up the sites beyond use but 95% of the time, if you are just reading something, it's totally fine and if something does screwup you can usually just add the main domain and maybe one or two others (in the case of streaming audio/video) and you have all the content without all the extra annoying crap.
 
Between NoScript and ABP (and making sure they're set up correctly) I haven't seen an ad in YEARS except on the very rare occasions when those addons didn't load properly. Somehow they even manage to get rid of those preroll ads on youtube and news sites. I went to visit my mom a while back and was using her laptop while I was there and it was screwed the hell up. I wanted to do clean wipe on it but didn't have time. There were so many godamned popups and sidebars and banners and autoplay crap on all my usual site it was horrible (and SLOOOOOW as hell). I reinstalled Firefox (which had become completely corrupted somehow), put the add ons on and it was pretty much just like working on my laptop at home.
 
The only real pain in the ass with those programs is trying to figure out which scripts need to be allowed to make certain elements work. Some sites will have a dozen or more extra sites listed all trying to load extra crap so figuring out where a video is hosted or what is needed to fill out forms can be a bit confusing but I've gotten familiar with the more common site names that can be trusted and what the garbage sites feeding ads and spying are. Simple google searches reveal who's who.
 
I personally think it's worth the trade off to get the extra load speed, security and not having to look at all that garrish nonsense assaulting my eyeballs. Autoplay ads also scare the piss out of me too when I'm not expecting them. lol
 
On a side note, sharke... when you get a minute I could use your input on some stuff in this thread...
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Focusrite-VRM-Box-Users-How-are-you-guys-setting-up-the-VRM-with-Sonar-m3089016.aspx
 
Finally gots me a VRM Box. Woo hoo!
 
Cheers.

And since I'm currently in the middle of some of this type of thing I'm wondering how much extra speed the HTML5 audio/video tags will add to things. Seems like it will help a lot since plugins like Flashplayer or whatever won't need to be triggered/launched to show stuff. Pretty cool but I probably shouldn't be hosting anything larger than images for the sake of not exceeding bandwidth limits. I will look into implementing that stuff if things go well and the profit motivation is there. Otherwise I'll just be linking out to other sites where the vids/audio will live.
 

sharke
 
Many hair-tearing experiences using my iPhone for example. 

Hahaha problem solved! Get a Nexus phone 
 

Beepster
The only real pain in the ass with those programs is trying to figure out which scripts need to be allowed to make certain elements work. Some sites will have a dozen or more extra sites listed all trying to load extra crap so figuring out where a video is hosted or what is needed to fill out forms can be a bit confusing but I've gotten familiar with the more common site names that can be trusted and what the garbage sites feeding ads and spying are. Simple google searches reveal who's who.

 
Most of those tools support wildcards, you can wildcard popular cdn's like 'ajax.googleapis.com/*' or 'maxcdn.bootstrapcdn.com/*' and 'ajax.microsoft.com/*'. Lots and lots of websites just use the popular cdn's for things like jquery, angular or bootstrap. 

Hi, Willie. Heheh... I have no idea what you just said (I'm still wrapping my head around making CSS do what I want) but googleapis is one of the permissions that usually shakes loose a site feature I need to get at. I'm assuming that's where their spiffy site building tools live which is one of the next phases of my learning process. Gotta actually have something to apply them to first before I can play with that stuff though. I might have a little beta/sandbox site going in the next couple of months to test things out. Still gonna avoid that kind of thing as much as possible.
 
And googleapis is something I have to allow here on the forum (along with the main domain) if I want to comment. Otherwise the comment field is inaccessible. It wasn't like that before the redesign a year or so ago. No biggie but it does then allow it on all the other tabs of other sites I have open BUT I think I may have fixed that by fiddling with my NS settings.
 
Very much a n00b at the web building thing. I'm currently going through everything W3schools has up step by step using my own mock up pages but Mozilla has started that new web builder initiative which might be cool.
 
I was also poking around the FF developer tools this morning to poke around at the guts of some websites which is pretty neat.