"How they hell do we get cclary to STFU? Copyright 9/2014, Trademark 9/2014." - TheBand19

If Cakewalk decided to just "stop supporting X3" and just left the product
completely unsupported for 5 years, and then, all of sudden, said

AFTER 6 YEARS IN THE MAKING IT"S HERE  - SONAR X4 !!!

Would that be acceptable?

The chances are that other DAW'S would have still "maintained" their products
adding, new technology, 128 bit support, computers would have quadrupled in
speed and capacity and memory, and X3 would have ceased being viable or usable.
There is a 99% probability that X3 would have been relegated to the dust heap and
you would have "moved on" to another DAW.  And you certainly would NOT be happy
with Cakewalk, in whom you had placed your FAITH.

Obviously the diehards would care less...but, for most it would NOT 
be an "acceptable" situation for a product that you invested heavily into for many years.
Especially if developing tech had rendered X3 virtually useless.
 
NOW...apply that same principle to what IK did with SampleTank, which, in all actuality, is even worse.

Is this an "acceptable" situation for the MANY who invested heavily and use these things to earn their living?

Here's my opinion - NO IT IS NOT.  Big surprise there.

Cake did the same thing on a lesser scale. What Cake did with X2 was NOT acceptable.  YES we got X3, but at the expense of MANY ( i.e  Beepster ) not being able to use what they had paid for and did not get any support for, AND they made us pay for
the fixes that should have been for X2, by buying X3.  THAT was not acceptable.  I voiced my displeasure in that regard.
But it was only 8 months of no support.  I bought X3, after selling my copy of Addictive Drums to get the price
back to $99, I bought in - mostly to get a "more stable product" and I moved on.

But I would think that, had Cake waited 5 years, this place would have been a ghost town and most would
have moved on to something else. Especially if the other DAW's were continuing to march forward.
In this day and age 5 years of ZERO support for a product, in the light of ever changing tech, is simply
NOT acceptable.  

IMO 10 years for a version increase is COMPLETELY LUDICROUS!!!
Obviously many disagree, and many just don't care, and that is their prerogative.

I do care.  I care that the large corporations have the mentality (granted to them by GAS and US, the Customer,
by our complacency) that whatever they do is ok...after all..they are there to make money, and we're just the
customer.  Our opinions don't matter. Support for the products we've purchased doesn't matter.  You got
what you paid for (as IK has stated repeatedly)...so carry on...whether you can still use it or not.  
WE THE COMPANY OWE YOU NOTHING!

This is NOT ACCEPTABLE.  And I hope that one day, just maybe, people will wake up and stop giving in to GAS,to 
the Corporations, and Governments, that ramrod things down our throat and we're just supposed to 
"move on and get over it".  

That is a VERY POOR statement of OUR mentality.  THIS is the reason why this country is doomed.
Because WE THE PEOPLE, WE THE CUSTOMER, WE THE REASON THESE COMPANY'S AND THE GOVERNMENT'S JOBS EXIST, have allowed ourselves to "cease to matter".  As long as "our little microcosm" is OK, nothing and no one else matters!  As long as we get what we want, we don't care about the "other" guy.  We allow "others" to influence us and let "others" make decisions for "us" even though we really have NO IDEA what decisions are being made.  As long as "I" can do what I need,  and get what "I" want, I'll let it go and move on.  Forget about my fellow man, he can fend for himself.

OCD and GAS win, and that makes the Corporations and Governments VERY HAPPY!  

They show us the "shiny new toy" and our eyes bug out and we say "I GOTTA HAVE IT!"  We're actually programmed
to be that way.  Did you think they called what you watched all those years  "programming" for any other reason?

So carry on Mr Consumer...knowing that if the Corporate Giant steps on you..it's OK..they're here to make money,
and you should "just let it go already" because everyone else rolled over and played dead, you should to!

______________________________________________________________________________________

On another note, let me also state that I look for, and post, the deals that I find...NOT to feed your GAS, but so that you can do what you do at the LOWEST POSSIBLE COST and get the MOST for the least.  I feel it is a very small thing to "give back" to this
community that shares so much.  

Also, I do not ask that you agree with me.  I ask that you at least "listen" to what I have to say, and consider it
"logically", and maybe we can ALL "learn something" and benefit from EACH OTHER.  Believe it or not, if we take
back the 'reigns" that were "ours" in the first place, and hold these people accountable for what they do...

We can prevail.

Finally, the ONLY thing I ever asked for, and EVERYONE knows this, from IK, was an apology to their customers for 5 years of lack of support for SampleTank.  THAT seems reasonable to me.  BUT apparently that's too much to ask.  They have, quite literally, done and said the exact opposite.  Mostly because of those of you who continue to stand up for, and support, their irresponsible and reprehensible "Corporate" attitude and behavior, and say "just let it go". 




 
 

Hi Larry
I believe that you are right about this and I stand with you. When you pay your hard earned cash to a company for a program that would provide to you some entertainment , you expect that company to work just as hard to give you that entertainment. After all you paid for it.
 
     I also think that a company like IK would have a data base of all the customers who bought SD2. An apology would be the least they could give, but seeing as the company is Italian based and as I see are very stuborn people I dont see this happening any time soon.
 
     I would like to see IK give a meaningfull compensation to the buyers of SD2 . Giving SD2 users an update/upgrade to SD3 for something like $75.00 as an apology would bring the trust of the users back to the company and in the long run the company would sell even more in the way of addons in the future.
 
     The stubbornness of IK doesnt surprise me in the least. I have followed the other threads saying companies have had a hard time with the economy, but this doesnt excuse them from not standing by their product and getting the bug fixes and the updates that are needed to support the software especially with the price they had asked for in the first place.
 
     I hope that IK will finally wake up to the fact that the customer is KING and not the company. Maybe they could get some new PR reps to handle this rather than the ones they have got now. I have nothing against these people who have this job, but they have brought a lot of ill will towards the customers with their statements and they should be replaced.
 
    I hope that this is a wakeup  call to all software producers. Respect your customers, you need them.

The problem is that your theories (accusations) of the reasons why Sampletank 2.5 was not upgraded to 64 bit are just pure conjecture and guesswork, given that you don't have any objective insight into the workings of the company at all. You don't know anything about their code or how it works, and you don't have access to their accounts department. 
 
How do you know, for instance, that had IK channeled their resources into a 64-bit Sampletank 5 years ago, they wouldn't have been steering themselves into dire financial straits? You don't. You have no idea. Back then, it was hard times for all. Consumer spending on luxury items back then was extremely low. People were losing their jobs and their homes left right and center. I lost something like 50% of my business in a very short period of time. While luxury spending has improved somewhat since then, observe how bad it was 5 years ago:
 

 
Given the devastating slump in luxury sales around that time, is it not even slightly feasible (and I'm asking you to substitute reason for emotion here) that a business decision was taken in order to keep the company above water - a decision in which development priorities were changed and resources redirected? Being directly honest and objective about this (instead of emotional), you have to concede this possiblity. Of course I didn't have access to their books either, nor was I present at any of their board meetings, so I'm guessing too. But it's a reasoned guess.
 
The downloads of iRig quickly exceeded one million in 2010. So it was a pretty shrewd business decision. They took advantage of the exploding mobile app market, and of the fact that people were spending less and making smaller purchases back then. If a 64-bit Sampletank 2.5 was not financially viable 5 years ago, then it wasn't financially viable. How would you have felt if, contrary to common business sense, they had plowed their scarce resources into upgrading Sampletank instead of jumping on the iPhone bandwagon, and subsequently gone out of business? How much "support" do you think would have been available to Sampletank users then? 
 
Of course my ideas are conjecture as well, but what I'm not going to do is extrapolate such guesswork into a never ending, obsessive rant and extrapolate it into a shopworn diatribe about the evils of corporate profit. 

Dan, that is THE most sane thing I have seen written in quite a while...

THE CUSTOMER is the REASON they EXIST, and that they HAVE A JOB.

Thank you for a breath of "fresh air" and some logical discourse.  It is greatly
appreciated.  



 

sharke
The problem is that your theories (accusations) of the reasons why Sampletank 2.5 was not upgraded to 64 bit are just pure conjecture and guesswork, given that you don't have any objective insight into the workings of the company at all. You don't know anything about their code or how it works, and you don't have access to their accounts department. 
 
How do you know, for instance, that had IK channeled their resources into a 64-bit Sampletank 5 years ago, they wouldn't have been steering themselves into dire financial straits? You don't. You have no idea. Back then, it was hard times for all. Consumer spending on luxury items back then was extremely low. People were losing their jobs and their homes left right and center. I lost something like 50% of my business in a very short period of time. While luxury spending has improved somewhat since then, observe how bad it was 5 years ago:
 

 
Here's what I know Sharke...for a FACT.
 
 
 
 
Given the devastating slump in luxury sales around that time, is it not even slightly feasible (and I'm asking you to substitute reason for emotion here) that a business decision was taken in order to keep the company above water - a decision in which development priorities were changed and resources redirected? Being directly honest and objective about this (instead of emotional), you have to concede this possiblity. Of course I didn't have access to their books either, nor was I present at any of their board meetings, so I'm guessing too. But it's a reasoned guess.
 
The downloads of iRig quickly exceeded one million in 2010. So it was a pretty shrewd business decision. They took advantage of the exploding mobile app market, and of the fact that people were spending less and making smaller purchases back then. If a 64-bit Sampletank 2.5 was not financially viable 5 years ago, then it wasn't financially viable. How would you have felt if, contrary to common business sense, they had plowed their scarce resources into upgrading Sampletank instead of jumping on the iPhone bandwagon, and subsequently gone out of business? How much "support" do you think would have been available to Sampletank users then? 
 
Of course my ideas are conjecture as well, but what I'm not going to do is extrapolate such guesswork into a never ending, obsessive rant and extrapolate it into a shopworn diatribe about the evils of corporate profit. 

You are one lost puppy dog....that's all I'm saying.
 

Sharke..you just presented logic to a guy standing with a torch,pitchfork, tinfoil hat and the textbook for a course in "Arguing based on logical fallacies 101" textbook. If you expect anything remotely rational in response you are in for a dramatic dissapointment. Pretty much anyone who says anything not agreeing with him is going to be accused of supporting corporate greed and a laundry list of things based 100% on conjecture. I'm not going to bother even attempting to have a reasonable discussion with him on it because anything less than IKM's neck through a rope is unacceptable. He won't directly address anything you actually said with an actual rebuttal based on facts because mob mentallity dies when cornered into presenting actual provable facts.

sharke
The problem is that your theories (accusations) of the reasons why Sampletank 2.5 was not upgraded to 64 bit are just pure conjecture and guesswork, given that you don't have any objective insight into the workings of the company at all. You don't know anything about their code or how it works, and you don't have access to their accounts department. 
 
How do you know, for instance, that had IK channeled their resources into a 64-bit Sampletank 5 years ago, they wouldn't have been steering themselves into dire financial straits? You don't. You have no idea. Back then, it was hard times for all. Consumer spending on luxury items back then was extremely low. People were losing their jobs and their homes left right and center. I lost something like 50% of my business in a very short period of time. While luxury spending has improved somewhat since then, observe how bad it was 5 years ago:
 

 
Given the devastating slump in luxury sales around that time, is it not even slightly feasible (and I'm asking you to substitute reason for emotion here) that a business decision was taken in order to keep the company above water - a decision in which development priorities were changed and resources redirected? Being directly honest and objective about this (instead of emotional), you have to concede this possiblity. Of course I didn't have access to their books either, nor was I present at any of their board meetings, so I'm guessing too. But it's a reasoned guess.
 
The downloads of iRig quickly exceeded one million in 2010. So it was a pretty shrewd business decision. They took advantage of the exploding mobile app market, and of the fact that people were spending less and making smaller purchases back then. If a 64-bit Sampletank 2.5 was not financially viable 5 years ago, then it wasn't financially viable. How would you have felt if, contrary to common business sense, they had plowed their scarce resources into upgrading Sampletank instead of jumping on the iPhone bandwagon, and subsequently gone out of business? How much "support" do you think would have been available to Sampletank users then? 
 
Of course my ideas are conjecture as well, but what I'm not going to do is extrapolate such guesswork into a never ending, obsessive rant and extrapolate it into a shopworn diatribe about the evils of corporate profit. 

Sharke
I believe you are talking on the business side of a company because you also have a company. The decisions a company make to survive the crisis are a companies own decision. 
If someone buys a car it is not only the car they are buying ,it is also the service provided in the first three years that is going to count even more to a customer than the car itself. When you don't support your product , then the product is useless in the customers eyes.
 
The downloads of iRig quickly exceeded one million in 2010. Even if the company asked $2.00 for this software, which they didn't, they would of had a gross income of 2 million dollars. A company that can generate that kind of gross income in a time that consumers are spending less should be thankfull and also should  know that support is the key issue to keeping revenue going and keeping the company alive.
 
Everyone has the right to his/her opinion and I do respect yours, but I have to go with Larry on this one.
 
A product without guarantie and support is loosing ground with the consumer.
 
BTW whether or not making ST2 a 64 bit program 5 years has nothing to do with not supporting your product with updates (fine tuning) if you will. X3 has had 5 upgrades already since the launch of their product.
Enough said.
 

FWIW, SONAR 8.5.2 Classic Edition hasn't been updated in over 5 years.
 
Yes, I'm still bummed out about it.
 
:-)
 
 
 
Samplitude is looking better and better every day. ;-)

dual mono post ^

cowboydan

sharke
The problem is that your theories (accusations) of the reasons why Sampletank 2.5 was not upgraded to 64 bit are just pure conjecture and guesswork, given that you don't have any objective insight into the workings of the company at all. You don't know anything about their code or how it works, and you don't have access to their accounts department. 
 
How do you know, for instance, that had IK channeled their resources into a 64-bit Sampletank 5 years ago, they wouldn't have been steering themselves into dire financial straits? You don't. You have no idea. Back then, it was hard times for all. Consumer spending on luxury items back then was extremely low. People were losing their jobs and their homes left right and center. I lost something like 50% of my business in a very short period of time. While luxury spending has improved somewhat since then, observe how bad it was 5 years ago:
 

 
Given the devastating slump in luxury sales around that time, is it not even slightly feasible (and I'm asking you to substitute reason for emotion here) that a business decision was taken in order to keep the company above water - a decision in which development priorities were changed and resources redirected? Being directly honest and objective about this (instead of emotional), you have to concede this possiblity. Of course I didn't have access to their books either, nor was I present at any of their board meetings, so I'm guessing too. But it's a reasoned guess.
 
The downloads of iRig quickly exceeded one million in 2010. So it was a pretty shrewd business decision. They took advantage of the exploding mobile app market, and of the fact that people were spending less and making smaller purchases back then. If a 64-bit Sampletank 2.5 was not financially viable 5 years ago, then it wasn't financially viable. How would you have felt if, contrary to common business sense, they had plowed their scarce resources into upgrading Sampletank instead of jumping on the iPhone bandwagon, and subsequently gone out of business? How much "support" do you think would have been available to Sampletank users then? 
 
Of course my ideas are conjecture as well, but what I'm not going to do is extrapolate such guesswork into a never ending, obsessive rant and extrapolate it into a shopworn diatribe about the evils of corporate profit. 

Sharke
I believe you are talking on the business side of a company because you also have a company. The decisions a company make to survive the crisis are a companies own decision. 
If someone buys a car it is not only the car they are buying ,it is also the service provided in the first three years that is going to count even more to a customer than the car itself. When you don't support your product , then the product is useless in the customers eyes.
 
The downloads of iRig quickly exceeded one million in 2010. Even if the company asked $2.00 for this software, which they didn't, they would of had a gross income of 2 million dollars. A company that can generate that kind of gross income in a time that consumers are spending less should be thankfull and also should  know that support is the key issue to keeping revenue going and keeping the company alive.
 
Everyone has the right to his/her opinion and I do respect yours, but I have to go with Larry on this one.
 
A product without guarantie and support is loosing ground with the consumer.
 
BTW whether or not making ST2 a 64 bit program 5 years has nothing to do with not supporting your product with updates (fine tuning) if you will. X3 has had 5 upgrades already since the launch of their product.
Enough said.
 

Dan has stated a LOGICAL conclusion.

What Sharke has stated is that a company, if it is in "Financial Straights"  has the right to NEGLECT 
the "customer service" to the CUSTOMERS who have already paid, because it needs to survive.

THIS SIMPLY WAS NOT THE CASE HERE (AND SHOULD NEVER BE THE CASE)!!!

That's NOT Logical, or rational, or even "sane".
 
Those customers are the REASON that you are in business in the first place, and regardless
of the companies "financials" they have no right to neglect paying customers - ever!

Dub, I think you also have some severe "I bought SampleTank and now must defend it issues",


There's nothing logical, or rational, or ever remotely "customer friendly" about what IK did.
Nor is there "logic or reason" in what Sharke is saying.

TRUTH - a Company NEVER has the right to neglect it's product that it has ALREADY collected money for...
REGARDLESS of their "financial situation" unless they have "gone out of business" completely.

Suppose after you just bought that new Cadillac, as Dan has stated, something goes wrong where
you can't drive it, and the company says "oh well - you got what you paid for?" which is what IK
has repeatedly stated.  Is that acceptable?  That is NOT acceptable....EVER!

They managed to "squeeze out" the resources for updated to Amplitube (their BIGGEST seller) and
T-Racks (their second BIGGEST seller) during that time, and free of charge.  But they didn't have 
the "resources" to update SampleTank (3rd on the list) because of their financial situation???

YET they had the resources to push out iApps galore, and iGadgets galore?

That's not a very logical, rational, or even sane thought.  No one could possibly think that!

There is always the probability that a product will "run it's course" and the company will "drop" it.
That was NEVER the case here!  They not only didn't drop it...they were selling them like hotcakes
during "Sales and Group Buys" - 4 years AFTER they had stated "they were hard at work on 
SampleTank 3" - they were STILL milking the cow that they weren't feeding!

And they make no apologies for it!  If this is how Sharke feels a company should run, then I certainly 
wouldn't want to buy anything from him.