2014/07/14 18:25:53
batsbrew
i will remind you..
 
we put a man on the moon.
 
 
in 1969.
 

 
2014/07/14 18:26:01
yorolpal
Quite literally just once...if you don't count studio playback systems. An ol pal of mine used to handle the marketing and advertising for several extremely high end audiophile product companies. He called me one day and asked if I'd like to go with him to evaluate some speakers he need to write about. They had been delivered to a...natch...doctor/super audiophile nerd's house as he had an eleventy jillion dollar system to use them with. Turned out he'd even built a true listening room to house his system. These speakers alone were over $40,000 semolians. We listened to both ultra high fidelity vinyl and digital recordings...mostly jazz, some classical.

Believe me when I tell you the Emperor was fully clothed that afternoon. Un-freakin-real. Scary. Me wanted. But will never have.

But that's ok, my D5s and KRKs aren't "that" far off:-)
2014/07/14 18:45:46
drewfx1
batsbrew
when i play a regular cd thru my 'decent' home system,
and immediately play the same file from an mp3,
i can immediately hear the difference.
 




I bet if you take a modern encoder and make an mp3 of a CD track at a reasonably high bit rate and do a proper ABX test on them you will fail (miserably) to hear any difference.
 
I also bet you won't do such a test.
2014/07/14 18:46:54
Leadfoot
Sometimes I really miss the days of vinyl. Back then, listening to music was more of an event. You stopped what you were doing, put a record on, and sat down to enjoy it. Now with the mp3 players and such, it just seems like music is becoming something you listen to while you're doing something else. I, like you all I'm sure, still love to tune out the world, put a CD in, and get enveloped in the music. There's something very therapeutic about it.
2014/07/14 19:18:02
Jeff Evans
I have lived with very top end high quality systems especially for years early on in my career.  It sticks with you.  You do remember how things sounded and it helps to shape what you do later as an engineer very much so.  It gives you things to strive for.  It gives you direction in which way to turn with EQ and use of dynamics etc and reverbs too. It is all good.  It helps you master as well.  Everything.  It is almost the same as doing an audio engineering degree.  Lock yourself away with a super setup and listen to everything that has been recorded at least once.
 
(For me it was best turntable with pickups/arms RIAA equalisers and class A valve amps driving Quad Electrostatic speakers. This is an experience. Everything is so fast in this setup. Fast class A amp response coupled with ultra light diaphragms that can move so fast. Amazing transients. Perfect speaker response right over the mids to down low. We had sub woofers reinforcing the electrostatic speakers.)
 
When I ask audio students how many are listening to previous well recorded music on hi fi setups, no one puts their hand up.
 
I was lucky enough to listen to a wide range of genres too on a system such as this.  But even today I still have the same reproduction qualities.  I still have the turntable from that era but can listen to high quality mixes at any time even now.  In fact I believe now I am hearing things even better than back then.  I am amazed. Think our pristine 24 bit premastered mixes we are doing in our current projects.
 
I like listen to well crafted mixes, (Analog or digital)  It is still important to do it.  I also do it in the middle of productions as well as mastering sessions.  Always bringing in ref tracks to check against.
 
It is a sort of A/B mentality that stems from being involved with HI Fi enthusiast. I agree with jamesg1213. I would have not missed being involved with those people at first but I out grew them.  They taught me how to listen past the music and listen to the quality of the reproduction process.  Good stuff.  But they never got past that and that is all they did often. In their favour though they knew how to listen to whole sides of records and I really got that. It does not hurt to think about longer pieces such as 20 or 30 minutes at a time.  I fell in love with the music and started to drift away from all the Hi Fi appeal after a while.  I believed I managed both things well.  The music, and how it was produced etc.. You can do both.  And also you need to let go of the whole sound production process at times and just immerse yourself in the music as well.  That is how you get better at your own music.
 
batsbrew has brought up something very good and important.  The means are still there to do it today.  There are plenty of great CD's around, you don't have to listen to Mps'3 at all if you don't want to.  A decent turntable is a pretty cool thing to have.  There is so much well recoded vinyl around.
 
It is also nice to go to live gigs and hear things in a live context.  A jazz ensemble with say drums, acoustic bass, piano, sax and guitar in a lovely live room.  These things all can add to a lovely well balanced acoustic sound.  Good to hear it from time to time.  Whenever I go to hear my son play Jazz gigs I am hearing the total acoustic ensemble sound too.  It is usually pretty damn nice.  Also I like classical orchestral concerts too.  They sound big and beautiful and so well balanced and reach only exciting volumes too.
2014/07/14 19:21:38
craigb
I had a modest $4,000+ system.  I used to keep wave files on disk.  Then I created .mp3's from a couple of CD's starting with 128 kpbs, then 164, 192 and 320.  I started with the actual CD, then the 128 and moved up from there.  Basically I stopped hearing any difference at 192 kbps which is why my media player only has audio at that level (3 TB worth!  I wonder how much it would be as .wav?).
 
That said, I will also make the disclaimer that I know we can experience sounds far above the normal 20k-22k Hz. and that some interesting things can happen up there.  I have an Echofone (http://www.echofone.com/) that I used to experiment with and I know people who have used them to learn Classical piano pieces.  The technology has also been used to try and communicate with dolphins, but so far I haven't had the need for any of those uses yet so I stick with my .mp3's. 
2014/07/14 19:55:01
batsbrew
drewfx1
batsbrew
when i play a regular cd thru my 'decent' home system,
and immediately play the same file from an mp3,
i can immediately hear the difference.
 




I bet if you take a modern encoder and make an mp3 of a CD track at a reasonably high bit rate and do a proper ABX test on them you will fail (miserably) to hear any difference.
 
I also bet you won't do such a test.




nah, don't need to.
 
got my system setup, to play my cd player...
then a pc to send mp3's via foobar directly to the same system.....
sounds quite different to me.
 
2014/07/14 20:31:55
drewfx1
batsbrew
drewfx1
batsbrew
when i play a regular cd thru my 'decent' home system,
and immediately play the same file from an mp3,
i can immediately hear the difference.
 




I bet if you take a modern encoder and make an mp3 of a CD track at a reasonably high bit rate and do a proper ABX test on them you will fail (miserably) to hear any difference.
 
I also bet you won't do such a test.




nah, don't need to.
 
got my system setup, to play my cd player...
then a pc to send mp3's via foobar directly to the same system.....
sounds quite different to me.




Oh I don't dispute that you think you're hearing a difference.
 
I just doubt that you are actually hearing anything that has anything whatsoever to do with a lossy format that was encoded at a reasonable bit rate by a modern encoder.
2014/07/14 20:47:59
batsbrew
that's ok, drew, i'm gonna stick with my gut feeling.
 
my mp3's are ripped directly by myself thru wavelab.
 
i trust it.
 
but i understand your hesitation....
 
2014/07/15 00:25:13
sharke
Back in the UK I had a pretty nice system comprised of vintage gear - not expensive by any means, just stuff I acquired through one way or another. I had an old Technics amp and Sharp speakers from the 70's - you wouldn't think Sharp would have made excellent speakers but these sounded absolutely stunning, warm and crisp at the same time and very focused. I also had an old Technics turntable and a vintage (early 80's) Marantz CD player which was built like a tank and sounded absolutely amazing. I had the speakers up on very good quality sand-weighted stands and connected with some pretty expensive cables.
 
None of this was exactly high-end audiophile equipment but it was just a great set of vintage components which sounded fantastic together. For some reason Jazz and reggae sounded out of this world on it. All of this stuff went its separate ways to relatives when I moved to the US and I kind of hope to get it back one day but I'm not holding my breath.
 
I know what audiophile stuff sounds like though - a friend of my dad's had a very pretty high end system with a Linn turntable and a sublime British made amp the name of which I can't remember - just an on/off switch and a volume knob as I recall. I got to listen to the whole Steely Dan catalog on vinyl through that thing and it sounded out of this world.
 
Since moving to New York and living in cubicles, I have up until now put the high quality listening on hold, opting for decent cans (Grado's and ATH M-50's). I've always been very respectful of my neighbors and have restricted any speaker listening to very short periods. However since I got my D5's and ARC2 I've been going nuts - to hell with them. Through some advice on the techniques forum I managed (via Virtual Audio Cable and Pedalboard) to get all of my computer's output running through ARC2, so I can listen to my whole collection (as well as Spotify) in glorious fidelity. The difference is amazing. Sat in my "sweet spot," the sound quality is every bit as nice as anything I've heard in the past, if not better. My dad's friend may have spend 10's of 1000's on his system, but it was still pumping out audio in an untreated room with all of that bad stuff. Through the D5's and ARC2 I've never heard such focused, tonally balanced music. The bass reproduction alone has been a revelation. Spotify, streamed at 320kbps, is exceptional sounding and I don't care what anyone says about compression.
 
My girlfriend is a lot younger than me (16 years younger to be exact) and I don't think she's heard hi fidelity playback like this before - like many young people, all she's ever known is computer speakers and iPhone buds. We have the D5's blasting as we're making dinner - I've played her a lot of Joni Mitchell, Stevie Wonder, Kate Bush, old reggae, that sort of thing, and I think the quality of the audio and the music has been an eye opener for her. Even outside of the ARC2 sweet spot it sounds amazing. Now if I can just get her into Frank Zappa (yeah right.....)
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