2014/07/19 11:49:25
bapu
Oh, and meh on Macca for me too.
2014/07/19 12:13:57
mixmkr
cclarry
I use Cubase...it's a heavy-weight DAW...feature wise
(especially MIDI) miles ahead of Sonar.  No it doesn't 
have the PC,...but, while the PC looks killer...it's only a 
secondary (but placed Primary) FX Bin, a "redundant FX Bin"
which are VST's with a proprietary interface, so technically it's
"eye candy" with no true benefit other then ease of access to 
controls and looking way kewl...it also causes the program
to use more memory, both RAM and Graphics, to accommodate it.


 



Sadly, there is a lot of truth to the above statement.  If the PC could be an option (I guess for looking cool?), and all of the PC FX could be put in the FX bin, and have the console view consisting of modules with drag-able sizing (especially sends and FX), might actually be more useful.  I guess that would have to make all the PC FX a VST as well...probably something that will never happen.
2014/07/19 14:26:12
Monkey23
cclarry
I use Cubase...it's a heavy-weight DAW...feature wise
(especially MIDI) miles ahead of Sonar...
As far as the interface goes in Sonar, I love it...but there are
DAW's that have taken the docking concept way beyond
what Sonar does...

If Sonar ever gets their MIDI up to par, they'd probably be
getting a lot more customers.  IMO, Sonars MIDI editing is
horrendous....but that's just MO...I've used $50 DAW's
that edited MIDI better then Sonar, and had better Scoring
capabilities...Cake targets the "Audio Recording" Musician,
at the expense of (and loss of sales to) the MIDI Musician.



Hey Larry, can you elaborate on that? What is it that you're getting as fas as MIDI editing with Cubase (or any DAW) that you're not getting with SONAR. I've always been happy with SONAR overall, and while I do find SONAR's MIDI editing to be long and counter intuitive, I asssumed all DAWs had the same options, more or less.
2014/07/19 15:56:23
paulo
strikinglyhandsome1
That should finish him off!



If that's all it would take, he can have mine and I'll buy another one.
2014/07/20 11:22:55
stevec
Monkey23

Hey Larry, can you elaborate on that? What is it that you're getting as fas as MIDI editing with Cubase (or any DAW) that you're not getting with SONAR. I've always been happy with SONAR overall, and while I do find SONAR's MIDI editing to be long and counter intuitive, I asssumed all DAWs had the same options, more or less.




I'm curious too.  I've always found SONAR's MIDI implementation fairly straightforward and easy to grasp.  With the X series redo, I've also found incremental improvements from X1 to X3. 
 
2014/07/20 11:58:43
ltb
jimusic
Me too Larry.
I switched to Cubase last summer when I got a great deal for it, including HALion 4 [now 5] for free, just a month or so before Sonar X3 was released - all the while waiting & wondering & waiting some more & wondering even more as we all were, during Cake's ridiculous 'cone of silence', instead of giving some very simple replies that they absolutely refused to honor their loyal customers with.
 
Remember???
 
That's when a number of us jumped ship.
 
Cubase is way ahead, particularly for MIDI, which is 90% of what I do.
 

 
I remember.
 
For me it was the removal of the Layers feature that was in X1, to be replaced with the new & buggy Lanes feature in X2. Then the paid upgrade to fix them in X3.
I have X3c installed but since working in Cubase I haven't used it on a project in over a year now.
I might again someday, I have alot money invested in Cakewalk products since 1999.
Both daws have strong & weakpoints but Steinberg's getting my $ now.

Can't imagine trying to do my latest projects in X3. Not having nested folders alone would drive me mad.
2014/07/20 12:51:05
Bajan Blue
I originally started with Cubase but changed to Sonar because I didn't like Cubase a great deal at the time (and I'm sure it must have got better) but mainly because Steinberg were dreadful to deal with - has that changed I wonder? Also their awful practice of just dropping products with NO back up - synths etc which I still try and use such as D'Cota etc.
Nigel
2014/07/20 13:12:06
sharke
For me Sonar's biggest problem is stability, especially if you're using a lot of VSTi's. I think one of the reasons the problems in this respect don't get more mention is because its user base is weighted toward the audio guys - indeed if you take a look at the song forum on any particular day, 90% of it seems to be audio recordings of real instruments as opposed to electronica or other MIDI-heavy projects. You don't see many techno guys using it. 
 
I like to go nuts with synths. Lots of them, and tons of automation on each one. I'm forever loading synths, deleting them, replacing them, loading new ones etc. And this is where I think Sonar falls down. The longer I work on a project, the more weirdness, instability and corruption creeps into it. I've had projects that have taken 10 launch attempts before I can load them without crashing. I also have a very annoying and ongoing problem with Native Instruments effects that reset all of their dials to zero whenever the project starts playback. It's been happening to me for almost 2 years, ever since I bought Komplete, and has even followed me to a brand new machine with a fresh install of everything. Having invested so much in Native Instruments stuff (2 versions of Komplete with upgrades to Ultimate), it's a real pain and means I'm never 100% confident about using the instruments and effects that I want to use. The problem seems to have perplexed the Bakers so far (fingers crossed), and Native Instruments say they have never heard of it (perhaps because the vast majority of their customers use other DAW's).
 
I've also started to see a problem whereby a project with Melodyne in it crashes every time on load (and the error message tells me it's Melodyne's fault). Going to send that one to the Bakers when I get the chance. 
 
I have a few Sonar projects that have become so corrupted and problematic and crashy that I've had no choice but to abandon them and reconstruct them from scratch. As you can imagine that's a huge amount of work and not really acceptable. Luckily this is just a hobby for me at present. 
 
Another huge problem in Sonar is moving large amounts of data around - inserting measures, deleting measures, that sort of thing. It has never worked properly for me and I've heard a lot of other people say the same thing. When inserting or deleting measures (i.e. empty space), you just want the rest of the project to move left or right accordingly. More often than not, you either get crashes or the automation you've painstakingly constructed doesn't move with the clips (even if you have that selected in the options). Lassoing the whole thing and dragging it manually is also very problematic and very rarely works properly. This for me is one of the biggest disappointments of Sonar. Moving around whole blocks of a composition is a fundamental part of the arrangement process and should work seamlessly and intuitively. It seemed that way when I used Pro Tools, never had a problem. With Sonar it's so problematic that it affects my composition choices. Shall I insert those 8 extra measures I've been thinking of? Better not - I'm likely to go through a whole evening of problems just getting the rest of the project (including automation) to slide along 8 measures. When you're letting the technical limitations of your DAW dictate something so musically fundamental as the arrangement of the song, it's not good. When you were looking forward to an evening of right-brained musical creativity and you end up spending the whole night wrestling with left-brained technical problems, something's wrong. It's especially painful for me given that work & personal commitments mean I only have a limited amount of time every day to be musical. 
 
So yeah, I've thought about and continue to think about other DAW's all the time. I really need something which can handle very synth-heavy projects without crashing, something which facilitates the creation and manipulation of a ton of complex automation seamlessly and without confusion. I need something which works with my creativity, not against it. Right now Sonar isn't working for me in that respect. I stick with it though, a) because I don't want to spend the money and the time buying/learning another DAW, and b) despite these problems, there is a lot about Sonar which I love, and I've become sort of attached to the little blighter. So I'm sticking around in the hope that the problems which sting me every day get sorted out eventually. Maybe I'm mad 
2014/07/20 13:38:38
vintagevibe
sharkeI also have a very annoying and ongoing problem with Native Instruments effects that reset all of their dials to zero whenever the project starts playback. It's been happening to me for almost 2 years, ever since I bought Komplete, and has even followed me to a brand new machine with a fresh install of everything. Having invested so much in Native Instruments stuff (2 versions of Komplete with upgrades to Ultimate), it's a real pain and means I'm never 100% confident about using the instruments and effects that I want to use. The problem seems to have perplexed the Bakers so far (fingers crossed), and Native Instruments say they have never heard of it (perhaps because the vast majority of their customers use other DAW's).
 

I used to have similar issues with Kontakt and Battery.  If I recall the fix had to do with right clicking on track MIDI controls and checking "disable".
2014/07/20 13:44:22
munmun
vintagevibe
sharkeI also have a very annoying and ongoing problem with Native Instruments effects that reset all of their dials to zero whenever the project starts playback. It's been happening to me for almost 2 years, ever since I bought Komplete, and has even followed me to a brand new machine with a fresh install of everything. Having invested so much in Native Instruments stuff (2 versions of Komplete with upgrades to Ultimate), it's a real pain and means I'm never 100% confident about using the instruments and effects that I want to use. The problem seems to have perplexed the Bakers so far (fingers crossed), and Native Instruments say they have never heard of it (perhaps because the vast majority of their customers use other DAW's).
 

I used to have similar issues with Kontakt and Battery.  If I recall the fix had to do with right clicking on track MIDI controls and checking "disable".




There is a fix for this.  Somewhere in midi settings there is a set controllers to zero box you need to uncheck.  Can someone chime in on this?  Not in front of my DAW right now.
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