another video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPUdiHEJ0EU 

Thanks Soundblend too for your great Youtube links in post #9.  They are excellent at explaining it all.  It is not so easy to understand actually and it does take a little while for it to all sink in.
 
The Sound on Sound article too is one of the best things I have read in a long while on the subject. Please read it and more than once too. It explains it all rather well.
 
Download the LUFS test tones  (they are very unique!)  and also there is another very detailed document that explains the test tones very well. Run them through your LUFS meters and make sure you are getting the correct readings. Sometimes you have to adjust some parameters of the LUFS meters before those test signals show up right.

last video post : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loixW6Ngsko 

And thanks for your posts ;-)

Say, Jeff, would you happen to have a link to something about Apple and LUFS? I've read the Apple mastering pdf but they were vague about any specific loudness target. If that -15 to -16 figure is correct, then you're right, it would seem to be a reasonable target. 
 
Ironic, isn't it, that Apple's slogan is something like "hear it the way the engineers intended", when in fact it's working the other way around. The engineers are figuring out how to game Apple, so it's Apple (the company that settled its lawsuit with Apple Records by promising to stay out of the recording industry) that's telling engineers how to do it.

Just got this posted...sorry if someone already has..>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug5UQNg8F4k

Dave it is mentioned in the SOS article I referred to. They are suggesting that the Apple LUFS level is -16 LUFS. Apple wont give it away either but some clever people have figured it out. So iTunes does a quick LUFS check on a track and adjusts it in relation to -16 LUFS. If your track is up around -8 LUFS then iTunes will take 8 db of gain off that. And that is when the track sounds weak and feeble. If your track is around -20 LUFS than iTunes will add 4 dB of gain to it.
 
But if your track is nice and dynamic and is sitting around -16 LUFS then iTunes wont touch it. Just lets it pass and it will sound great as a result.
 
I tend to matser a little higher than -16 LUFS but not by much -10 to -12 LUFS say. That means that iTunes will only be nudging my tracks down by 4 dB or so. They still sound great. BTW iTunes has to have the Soundcheck feature switched on as well. If a client complains to me that a track is too low in iTunes it usually turns out they don't have Soundcheck engaged. I tell them to engage it and then they are happy.
 
 
 

bitflipper
Say, Jeff, would you happen to have a link to something about Apple and LUFS? I've read the Apple mastering pdf but they were vague about any specific loudness target. If that -15 to -16 figure is correct, then you're right, it would seem to be a reasonable target. 
 
Ironic, isn't it, that Apple's slogan is something like "hear it the way the engineers intended", when in fact it's working the other way around. The engineers are figuring out how to game Apple, so it's Apple (the company that settled its lawsuit with Apple Records by promising to stay out of the recording industry) that's telling engineers how to do it.

bit,
If you haven't already check Thomas Lund's / tc electronics study and recommendations-
http://www.tcelectronic.c...le-test-paper-2013.pdf
 
 
 

Jeff Evans
Download the LUFS test tones  (they are very unique!)  

Uhmm where is the link for the LUFS test tones again ?

This discussion is very informative.  Let me jump back in by saying my interest was generated by a video I bought from PureMix.net that touted input levels at -18dfs was the best way of starting the recording process.  

Well, I used record hot (not clipping but trying to use all the bits in a black face ADAT) and if I don't watch myself, I still record hot.  Some of my preamps have meters and others do not so I don't really know what levels are hitting my converters until the LEDs in my Frontier Tango 24 AD/DA boxes start going yellow or red.
 
So then I have to use the Total Mix software in my RME soundcard to try to find where I'm at level wise but I'm not sure that the meters will give me RMS levels or not.   My ears tell me things are ok but when I hit Pro Tools those meters seem to tell me something else.  And then the audio wave forms are drawn quite normally but the channel meters seem hot.
 
I haven't had any complaints about the finish product but I'm at the stage where I want to get past what I "feel" is right and into what I "know" is right.  I want to get projects finished faster and not have to go back and redo gain staging after all of the tracks are recorded and I have a big loud mess at the output bus.

Mod Bod
This discussion is very informative.  Let me jump back in by saying my interest was generated by a video I bought from PureMix.net that touted input levels at -18dfs was the best way of starting the recording process.  

Well, I used record hot (not clipping but trying to use all the bits in a black face ADAT) and if I don't watch myself, I still record hot.  Some of my preamps have meters and others do not so I don't really know what levels are hitting my converters until the LEDs in my Frontier Tango 24 AD/DA boxes start going yellow or red.
 
So then I have to use the Total Mix software in my RME soundcard to try to find where I'm at level wise but I'm not sure that the meters will give me RMS levels or not.   My ears tell me things are ok but when I hit Pro Tools those meters seem to tell me something else.  And then the audio wave forms are drawn quite normally but the channel meters seem hot.
 
I haven't had any complaints about the finish product but I'm at the stage where I want to get past what I "feel" is right and into what I "know" is right.  I want to get projects finished faster and not have to go back and redo gain staging after all of the tracks are recorded and I have a big loud mess at the output bus.

I know that Pro Tools uses dbFS for their meters...and the recommendation of the -18 dbFS is based
on the fact that most audio processing (either Analog or plugins) has the "sweet spot" of -18 dbFS.
It's not to say that you can't go over or under and still be ok....it's just the "Sweet Spot" of the 
Hardware, and since the Plugins emulate the hardware, that is also the case for them, so your RMS
level is what is critical for falling in at that -18 dbFS "Sweet Spot" to get the "most" from it.  
Your peaks can approach 0, but always be safe and allow headroom in the mix for the Mastering Engineer.