2014/05/06 14:07:08
jamesg1213
I'm English.
 
52% of our days are overcast.
 
This imbues us with a wistful melancholy, and makes us prone to binge-drinking and casual violence.
 
On the plus side, we do have Nectar Points.
 
I try and get all that across in my instrumentals.
2014/05/06 14:31:56
sharke
jamesg1213
I'm English.
 
52% of our days are overcast.
 


A little optimistic, no?
2014/05/06 14:43:51
craigb
Go back to where I posted some info from a friend.  Different keys/modes can illicit different emotions.  
 
For example, here's "Don't Worry, Be Happy" redone in a minor key as "Be Worry, Don't Happy."  Completely changes the emotion of the song doesn't it?
 

2014/05/06 14:48:47
craigb
Here's one going the other way from minor to Major.
 

2014/05/06 14:54:34
craigb
This group does a bunch of covers changing sad to happy and vice-versa.  Excellent examples.
 

 
2014/05/09 17:09:12
Moshkiae
Mozart Link My sole goal is to create songs in my head and translate EXACTLY what I hear in my head (not just the notes, but the exact sounds [instruments] that play).  I am, in fact, already able to create tunes and such in my head ...

 
If you have these "in your head" you will remember them forever, and you have time to learn an instrument or two so you can figure out how to bring these down from your head! My guess is that you do NOT have the musical ability, and you are hoping that something can be done to get around it, because you do not have the patience to study an instrument and learn its subtleties.
 
Well, there is a side of this that you HAVE TO LEARN, and it is basic music and piano, because all the VST's and anything out there is played on a midi keyboard, or a midi ipad! Either way, knowing enough music will help ... but if you can not recognise Eflat39, you will not find that little sound that is in your head! Sometimes it is something that strange and off its rocker!
 
I do the same thing in writing. WITH ONE EXCEPTION. I do not "tell" my characters where to go and what to do, and sometimes the story goes in its own way, and it is just fine as it is. I'm not a mental person, in the sense that it all has to be done EXACTLY like it is in my mind. The chances, that you will succeed and be able to get that done, is ridiculously and stupidly low and almost impossible.
 
You must think that no one plays for that special sense of emotion, and some folks do so by playing and not talking about it, and some sing it, and others ... just GAWK at it all. You are totally incorrect. We ALL do it for that inner sight, vision and desire. But, the "translation" is not easy. It is spectacularly HARD, and you will not achieve it with the kind of ideas that you are mentioning here. Why? Because you are closing down the opening that brings these down, to one way that you want to do only! What you fail to see is that it might not be exactly like that and it could actually sound differently, though you felt it this or that way. It's not the same thing.
 
I write poetry and film OFF MY VISION, and never EVER, have I touched up anything except the bits and pieces of language (English) so it is a bit clearer. And I wrote my first screen play 35 years ago. ALL of it off a bunch of my dreams.
 
Is the "translation" perfect? Yeah. Feeling wise for me, it is perfect. Reality wise it will never be filmed, understood, or appreciated by anyone that I will ever meet. You know why? ... it was inside my head! And for me to think/say/feel that you, Bapu, Craig or any other person in this place will "get it" or enjoy it, is facile, stupid, and grossly naive. They might, they might not, and you can not expect or predict that.
 
Mozart Link ... I am completely terrible when it comes to getting the notes out and such how I hear them in my head. ...

 
According to the guy that teaches the perfect pitch thing, you have no idea what the notes are! And until you do, you can not translate this successfully. Even I, admit and realize that. I'm already taking that myself ... because recognizing the note combinations is actually really cool, and you might not necessarily have to know an instrument or all the instruments, since your mind can "translate" the same chord sequence in a different instrument. I can alreayd hear this in 4 or 5 instruments that I am "in tune" with! In fact, I like to hear them all together at the same time ... !!! 
2014/05/09 23:40:50
Mozart Link
MoshkiaeIf you have these "in your head" you will remember them forever, and you have time to learn an instrument or two so you can figure out how to bring these down from your head! My guess is that you do NOT have the musical ability, and you are hoping that something can be done to get around it, because you do not have the patience to study an instrument and learn its subtleties.

I actually have all the patience and will necessary to learn all that is needed to translate what's in my head.  When I was talking about music psychology, I wasn't looking for another way out--I was just looking for an added addition that would be ideal for really helping me out.  But, of course, it doesn't exist.
 
Now in terms of translating what I hear in my head, there is also another major problem which is that when I do attempt in creating the notes, I cannot even tell if the notes I've created match with what's in my head as I do not have a means of direct comparison between the notes in my head and the notes I've created.  Therefore, I cannot tell if the song I created has the same feel as the one in my head or if it's a completely different song with a completely different feel.  Therefore, I would have to rely on a trial and error process in which I present the song I've created to the audience and see if they agree that it portrays the feelings that I've described (the feelings I've described for the real song in my head).
 
If they don't agree, then I would go through the same process over again.  But even if they did agree, that still doesn't tell me if I have successfully managed to make a perfect replication of the real song in my head or if it's still a completely different song (but with a similar emotion).  Since I do not have a means of direct comparison as I just stated, would this mean I would never be able to find out the answer?
 
I, again, understand that everyone feels differently about music.  But there are, in fact, songs that do successfully portray emotion across to the audience.  For example, a song that is epic (a song with an epic singing choir such as a song in a movie trailer) is something that practically everyone will interpret as epic.  This generalized feeling of epic may be different for everyone, but the song's generalized feeling of epic has successfully gotten through to the audience.
 
This is the same thing for the songs in my head.  I completely feel that the songs in my head have generalized feelings to them that will get through to the audience and that how I feel about these songs in my head are not just my own interpretations.  But again, even if people agree with a certain song I've made in how I've described how it should feel, that still does not tell me if I have successfully managed to make a perfect replication of the real song in my head or if it's still a completely different song (but with a similar emotion).  I wish to make a perfect replication of the songs in my head (if possible.  If not possible, then I wish to get as close to this goal as possible).
 
MoshkiaeI do the same thing in writing. WITH ONE EXCEPTION. I do not "tell" my characters where to go and what to do, and sometimes the story goes in its own way, and it is just fine as it is. I'm not a mental person, in the sense that it all has to be done EXACTLY like it is in my mind. The chances, that you will succeed and be able to get that done, is ridiculously and stupidly low and almost impossible.

But weren't famous composers such as Mozart and Beethoven successful at doing this?  Considering how complex and well-crafted their songs are, if they are perfect replicas of what they heard in their heads, then these composers were obviously VERY successful at replicating what they heard in their heads into real life.  Of course, it took them a lot of musical training in order to do so.  But considering that my songs in my head are not extremely complicated, then with training as well, wouldn't I also be able to make perfect replications of songs I hear in my head?
 
Also, I wish to make songs exactly as I hear them in my head because I feel that songs I create in my head are perfect and that if I were to not make them how I hear them in my head and instead "just let everything go on its own," then it won't be nearly as good.  If it does turn out to be just as good (or even better), then these would be very rare moments.  I feel that the songs I create in my head are perfect because they were created with pure emotion (I have channeled my emotions into making them).  Therefore, if I were to go about a means of creating music that is not so accurate in terms of channeling emotion (such as experimenting and playing around), then it won't turn out nearly as good.  For me, creating songs in my head is the best way of composing good music.
 
 
2014/05/10 00:44:26
Steve_Karl
bapu
Interpretation is in the ear of the beholder.
 
I don't think there is a formula much beyond major keys are "happy" and minor keys are "sad" and all that rot.


I beg to differ but haven't, right at the moment, the proper way to express my difference.
My brother, however, who has his Phd in musicology (music history) has been working on a book with his co author who is a psychologist
on this exact subject and has come up with some very interesting reading on the subject, and is able to articulate the specifics very well.

Of course everything is subjective, (ear of the beholder) to a certain degree, but there is way more to it that just happy / sad chords.
I'll point him to this post and request that he write me a valid response from his perspective.
2014/05/10 00:52:19
Steve_Karl
slartabartfast
"And when you have no knowledge and no explanation of how to use that knowledge, you cannot achieve anything."
 
You have a very limited view of knowledge. And you confuse explanation with understanding. This is not just a music thing, if you believe what you have said, you are deeply confused about life.
 
We might think that music expresses emotion because of a cognitive link with language, and that is true. But one can also experience emotion from an entirely language free stimulus. A painting can evoke a strong emotion, and it has very little at all to do with color theory or perspective. And the emotive language of poetry does not derive from the rules of grammar, rhyme or meter.
 
If you do not feel any emotional response to music (some people do not) then you are at a great disadvantage. If you do, then you have all of the knowledge you need to evaluate your own music, and if you can evaluate it you can shape it. Music psychology is an interesting study, but again you are confusing an explanatory model with the thing itself. You can have a PhD in the psychology of love, but it is neither necessary nor particularly helpful if you are falling in love. The emotional ear is what you need to listen to, and practice listening to your feelings is helpful, but you do not need perfect pitch.


Very well said.
2014/05/10 02:15:32
Steve_Karl
Mozart Link
My sole goal is to create songs in my head and translate EXACTLY what I hear in my head (not just the notes, but the exact sounds [instruments] that play).  I am, in fact, already able to create tunes and such in my head that I deem to be good.  Though my ability is good in this area, I am completely terrible when it comes to getting the notes out and such how I hear them in my head.  So I will need training in terms of being able to translate the notes in my head as well as being able to replicate the sounds of the instruments in my head.  Could you explain exactly what training I will need in order to become good at those things?


Your head is only 1/2 ( probably less that 1/2 really ) of what is needed, to be a composer that writes with emotion, in my opinion.
Your ears are tiny compared to your whole body, your "core".
Learn to listen with your whole body. Become aware of your whole self.

You're 26 yrs. old and I'm sorry to say I believe that's a very late start to be asking these questions.
(Yoda said: Me thinks he be too old for Jedi training) ... similar story here, but then again someone believed in the young (but not young enough) potential jedi, and helped him make it happen.

You're also making it obvious you have very little life experience when it comes to self awareness, and "how *it* works" ... *it* being the human.
So let me play the roll, for just one post and correct your thinking in a way that was beneficial to me when I was young, and also in a way, to me, that would have helped me never go over to the dark side, as I did for quite a few years. And of course, please realize that everything I say is subjective.

You say: " I am, in fact, already able to create tunes and such in my head that I deem to be good."
There is no "deem" and there is no "good" ... there is only music.
You haven't yet earned the right to judge if it is good or bad. You haven't even proven to any one that it exists. What is your main musical instrument? Play it until it is a part of you, until it becomes part of your core.

You say: "When it comes to music, emotion and getting that emotion across to the audience is the most important thing to me."
That is most certainly the fasted path to the dark side you can ever choose!
The only really truly great music is written by the composer and for the composer, alone.
To care what anyone else thinks about what you do is a grave mistake.
To lust after their praise is an even greater mistake.
Those 2 mistakes will lead you to empty hollow meaningless expressions not fit to be called music.
(You have to earn the ability to do the 2 above by having an equally strong heart to balance that kind of  ego / stupidity.)
 
Short of having a master teacher that is going to watch you play your instrument every day, and box your ears until they hear you actually playing with feeling,
listening, but with every fiber of your being, will be your strongest teacher.
Expand your listening experience to include as much emotional range as possible.

Learn to play specific passages and learn to play them exactly as they are played by the best performers you can find. Learn every nuance of the phrasing and be able to duplicate it exactly.
When you've done that enough the light bulb will begin to glow, but it won't be above your head,
or in your head, it will be in you guts and heart and throat.
If you can listen to these different performances of the same composition and begin to discover what makes them different might be educational.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIyYIjv88jk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeNmzcelwnM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr13EnHDyD8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgvPCJqqBGQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDTqrBLOrik
 
Disclaimer: Everything I say is just one mans subjective point of view.
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