• Coffee House
  • Is Sir Paul the greatest composer of all time? (p.6)
2014/02/20 09:38:48
soens
Ruben
In Great Britain, yes, "Sir" is different from having an MBE. In addition to his MBE, McCartney was knighted by Queen Elizabeth in 1997 - and that's what makes him a "Sir".



At least, that's what the world has been led to believe, anyway. In reality she was simply telling him to "give it a rest" by saying "Good night, sir!"  How things get blown out of proportion.
 
BTW, I'm sure there are miriads of blokes who've conducted an MBE (Multistate Bar Examination). They go by the term "bar hoppers".
2014/02/20 10:03:50
Mesh
bapu
This discussion needs to be held by a group much smarter than us.
 


This should be taken upstairs.
Please note: (any alterations of quotes need be done down here, prior to its upward migration).
 
2014/02/20 16:31:40
bitflipper
dubdisciple
Speaking of People...why does the 50 most beautiful people list change every year?  Shouldn't it mostly stay the same unless someone dies or gets uglier or someone somehow makes a massive jump in beauty?


On a similar note, why don't the NYT, WSJ and USA Today best-seller lists agree with one another?
2014/02/20 16:32:13
dmbaer
Jeff Evans
 
But as fas as being the greatest composer of all time, no that is just a silly concept.




The actor Peter Ustinov, who was clearly a well-educated, erudite fellow, once told a story about a test he once took in school.  One question was "who was the greatest composer?".  He answered: "Bach".  The test came back with the answer marked: "Incorrect, it was Beethoven".
2014/02/21 01:36:14
noldar12
Its been a long while since posting...
 
Greatest composer? In a word: no.  Fabulous songwriter though.
 
In terms of the sweep of music history probably the person who had the greatest "change" influence was Beethoven, as he is generally regarded as the turning point between the Classical period (roughly 1750-1825) and the Romantic period that followed.
 
Telemann's output continues to amaze me.  In comparison, I am doing well to write a couple lengthy compositions a year (and it is usually less).  OTOH, Telemann stayed within the conventions of his day.
 
The composer who really astounds me in terms of output remains J.S. Bach.  For a number of years, he was required to write a 20 minute or so cantata every week for church use.  IIRC something like 100+ survive.  Imagine having to write a full length piece every week for choir, small orchestra, and keyboard - not to mention having someone to get all the parts copied, rehearse it, conduct it, etc.
 
But, what really amazes me was his ability to improvise fugues.  To do that, one really has to have a firm grasp of counterpoint, harmony, and melody, in order to interweave all the different voices, have the needed interplay between the voices with the main theme, and keep the piece interesting.
 
As has already been said, one of the differences is that it requires much different listening skills from pop music (please note: I am not saying pop music is "bad").
 
I will also admit a deep fondness for the music of Ralph Vaughn Williams, and he is one of my absolute favorite composers, particularly the Fantasia on a Theme of Thomas Tallis.  One of the things that so appeals to me is his use of traditional modes, rather than having everything in strict major/minor.  Another interesting work of his, though a "program" work, and also quite "chilling" is his Symphonia Antarctica (and yes, The Lark Ascending).
 
 
 
2014/02/21 06:28:32
michaelhanson
"In terms of the sweep of music history probably the person who had the greatest "change" influence was Beethoven, as he is generally regarded as the turning point between the Classical period (roughly 1750-1825) and the Romantic period that followed."

I really dug his song, Roll Over Beethoven.
2014/02/21 08:24:25
rontarrant
I think this is the kind of question that can only be answered: it depends...
...on:
- which style of music you're looking at,
- which era you're talking about, and
- what level(s) of artistry you're including.
 
The best composer of all time (any style, any era, any level of artistry) is Mozart. Hands down, end of discussion. You only have to listen (really listen, not just wait for it to finish) to one or two of his pieces to come to this conclusion.
 
But, if we're talking about the 1960's (McCartney's era) and pop music (his style) and AM-radio, grab-the-masses level of artistry, then yes. McCartney's the one... Sort of.
 
Even he was closely rivaled by Jaggar, Richards and Lennon, all of whom wrote about deeper subjects most of the time. So, if you include all songs of the era and not just AM hits, the answer is: maybe.
 
If you're talking about pie-in-the-sky, rose-coloured-glasses, love is everywhere and it's a beautiful day, and you've got your blinders on so all you can see (or All You Need) is love, you just can't beat McCartney, especially if you're talking volume (number, not loudness). Although, it's commonly believed Lennon wrote that song.
 
And if you're talking about generosity, again it's McCartney. He wrote songs to cheer people up or sympathize with whatever they were going through such as Hey Jude (Julian Lennon was depressed by his parents' divorce), For No One (George was upset about breaking up with Patty), Give Ireland Back to the Irish (during the height of pro-Irish sympathy in England) just to name a few.
 
And let's not forget that every love song he wrote after Lovely Linda was to make the love of his life feel special.
 
So, which of those are you talking about?
 
2014/02/21 09:19:45
quantumeffect
I think that the 20th century compositions of Duke Ellington / Billy Strayhorn rival that of the Lennon / McCartney / Martin contributions (all both individually and/or collaboratively) both in terms of their number and their batting average if you will.
 
Also, contrary to one opinion forwarded in this thread, I think the OP is an excellent jumping off point for a discussion about the impact that certain composers (or is that “song writers”) have had on music and pop culture in general (or the equivalent of pop culture in the 1600’s – 1800’s).
2014/02/21 10:10:52
clintmartin
Carole King rarely gets mentioned in this kind of thread, but she has written a ton of good songs.
2014/02/21 10:44:38
spacey
For one to have the knowledge and ability to sit with pen in hand and write out scores, as heard in their head and give to musicians to execute the part (as written) as many great composers have done is without doubt beyond most musicians and/or composers abilities. Works that express every little nuance and strong emotion that music may have to offer all written down on paper to be executed by highly trained musicians.
 
There are people that reach levels that leave all others knowing that the brain and abilities of some people will never be fully understood and leave many believing that the ability was a gift from a God....an exceptable understanding to some that can't find another reasoning or explanation.
 
I'm not qualified to compare their abilities. I can make ignorant comparisons and at best hope they were funny. In truth I sometimes have trouble comparing apples to apples...there seem to be many different kinds of apples and I'm not certain that I've tasted them all.
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