that gizmo...
 
lol

it's like DLR said....
 
"i brought my pencil...
give me something to WRITE on, man"
 

Rimshot
 
It's the absolute comments that get me. "Some people are" this and that. "Some people's ideas are irrelevant...".  
 
We all come from different backgrounds and experience. Everyone can chose to do something any old way they want and should not be criticized for it or made to believe they are inferior in some way.
 
 
Who knows, the guy just learning his way around engineering and production today might end up being a fabulous producer some day. Who's gonna tell them the right and wrong way of doing stuff? They need to practice, learn what works and what doesn't, study, read, listen, test, experiment, and IMO above all, not get talked into one person's POV. 
 
We all can offer opinions and I am not saying to hold back. I just wish some of the comments would allow for other points of view without as much critique at times. For the less experienced out there, some of us came from analog backgrounds that have learned the digital realm. Others have been born into the digital world. There are so many options these days that sometimes we can bog down into what path to use. You will not be confident in that choice unless you learn it for yourself. 

I'm guilty of this but unfortunately, I can't help myself. I've stayed away from the forums so that I keep my opinion to myself. However, there comes a time when I see a person really asking for help that is a good guy, getting lead so far astray, I just feel the need to step in and try to make a difference. At the end of the day, no one should be reading nine pages of stuff based on a low input mixing question, crest factors, a possible hearing issue and an improper monitor situation. To me being a teacher in this field, I just can't shut up and not chime in. Are they good reads? Absolutely! Are they really necessary for where the guy is now? I don't believe so...and based on his answers of "that's a lot to take in" it's in black and white, ya know?
 
We had a guy that frequented this forum and scared quite a few people away with his infinite wisdom of nothing. I'm glad he's moved on to haunt another place. He stopped me from posting for a while and then I said "you know what, I'm not going to let this joker corrupt the forum without a little friction because there are at least 3-5 people that like what I have to say." LOL! :)
 
My point is, this field does not need to be explained to the point of making someone sorry they asked a question because someone decides to be helpful and post links to 9000 pages to read. Please understand, I'm not saying that all the links posted here are that way and I'm not discrediting anyone from giving help or advice. We've had some great conversation as well as solutions to the problems. But it's also VERY important to actually help someone, not just bombard them with more technical jargon. If you taught this stuff like I do all the time, you'd understand what I mean.
 
I get Full Sail students in here all the time that are so lost without all the fancy gear they learned on, they're pretty useless in the field because half the stuff they learned has nothing to do with the gear they own NOW. It's so easy to go astray it can make someone lose desire to do this for fun. I'm trying not to let that happen when I say the stuff you quoted me on. I have nothing but the best of intentions and was once where others are now. I too know what it's like to be struggling while trying to get my head around this stuff. Add in being lead astray constantly and it makes this a terrible experience really.
 
So what I'm saying is...if refer back to the questions Andy asked....look at this thread and then ask what is necessary and what isn't? See my point? It's too easy to post a book of links and tell someone "here, read this". Sometimes it helps, other times it's MORE helpful to just answer the question in a language the person can understand. To me, without an explanation in the right tone, links and pages of info are in a sense, the same as someone telling me to "Read the f'n manual". We're better than that over here. :) Sorry if I ruffled your feathers, Jimmy.
 
Andy, please don't ever be sorry for asking a question. Sorry if I rubbed you the wrong way or started any confrontation. I'm very selective in who I reach out to these days. I felt you were a good guy in need, I just wanted to try and help you from becoming more of a book worm than a fun, part time engineer. Best of luck to you.
 
-Danny

I think I read most of this thread and the one thing with the OP that struck me is the focus on meters and numbers. While these are great tools, focusing there can be harmful. I heard a comment recently that made me smile, which was a comment about hardware (which they prefer), and then they said "Its not for the reason you may think... I like to be able to close my eyes and adjust faders (very difficult with a mouse)."

I certainly miss mixing on a desk. There was a fun, magical element, which surprised me, when I actually made all the moves at the right time or had help and 4 hands were dancing around. Of course, it wasn't repeatable and sucked when it didn't work! LOL
  I guess I'm calmer and assume I'll get what I want to hear ITB, so there is that satisfaction.
Michael

pentimentosound
I certainly miss mixing on a desk. There was a fun, magical element, which surprised me, when I actually made all the moves at the right time or had help and 4 hands were dancing around. Of course, it wasn't repeatable and sucked when it didn't work! LOL
  I guess I'm calmer and assume I'll get what I want to hear ITB, so there is that satisfaction.
Michael

Hey Michael, are you using a controller or anything? If not, they have some really good stuff out there to look into. This will make things more "console esq". I recently got a Midas M32 which allows for both ITB and OTB along with being a controller. I decided to try working with it OTB just to see if I really did miss it. Man, I lasted a half a mix and disconnected the OTB part. I can nearly get the same "console feel" ITB along with the board's controller features by assigning knobs to control the things that are important. Eq, effects, just about anything I need. If you're not using any type of controller, look into them sometime as there is a wide array of cool stuff to choose from that meets any price range. :)
 
-Danny

i guess i'm the odd man out...
i would not trade the control i have ITB for any board i worked on before...
 

Hi again peeps.
 
Apologies for my absence. As well as wondering what to say next, in my "protracted discussion about mixing," I'm trying to deal with some crap at home, which is starting to come to a head, and emotions are running high, to say the least. That's not leaving me enough time to deal with something that I started in the first place.
 
@ Danny - I always read, with utmost respect, all your replies to my questions. I was initially a bit taken aback with your two initial posts, but I don't know why now, and I have just read through each and every word again and I am happy with your responses. I think your bottom line,
 

Danny Danzi
I just wanted to try and help you from becoming more of a book worm than a fun, part time engineer.

kind of hits home to me that I'm doing here what I always do, with every hobby I jump on, whether it's learning to play squash (not done that for years), water ski (or that), photography, etc. I always go and buy the book. It is one of my attributes that my real life chums pick on when they want to have a laugh with me (or at me LOL).
 
Invariably, I'll end up spending more time reading about something instead getting some hands-on experience.
 
So thanks for pointing that out Danny.
 
@Jeff - Again, Jeff, I respect and value all your input when it is offered. I always have. I've been a member of this forum for some time now and, like Danny, you have always been here, helping peeps with all sorts of stuff.
 
What I find very interesting indeed, is what you say in your last post above, about using an editor to, let's say, improve RMS (or peak) levels.
 

Jeff Evans
I would add as much gain as needed to get the top most peak say 6 db away from 0dB FS.

I did exactly this with all the wave files provided for this competition I mentioned. If I was left to my own reasoning, I couldn't see anything wrong with this approach. Yes, if there is noise there, then you raise the noise level too, but you would do the same when using the gain knob at the top of its mixing strip.
 
It was only when I decided to research normalising wave files before mixing that I found so many peeps saying that it is wrong to do this, so I copied the original wave files over the top of my normalised ones and used the gain knob instead.
 
@ Rob - I respect your input Rob because your music speaks volumes to me. It demands respect.
 
@ no one in particular - the reason I put the word "protracted" in the thread title was meant to mean that I'd be the person being "protracted." As it turns out, this topic has become protracted, but not quite the way I intended... I think I've learned an important lesson right there...
 
Regarding the stereo sound stage - I think I'm okay with this. I've been listening to music on headphones since I was knee high to a grass hopper, and I am happy with my approach to stereo mixing. I've had some good stuff said about my latest tune which is basically confirming this.
 
I've got to go soon, so I'll draw this to a close by saying, I want to draw a line under this I think. I should have created new topics based on individual subjects (within mixing), rather than try to have one topic covering all the possible subjects.
 
cheers
 
andy