2014/04/25 12:00:41
Mesh
My wife & I enjoy watching HGTV and especially watching shows like Property Brothers, Rehab Addict etc....
 
After 2 years of being on the market to buy a home here in Orlando, we're just not happy with what's out there within our budget (new or older homes). We do like the older homes that have a lot of character + land (1/2 acre or more), but they all do need some repairs. The newer homes are only good as they're "maintain free" and peace of mind (I'm not much of a handy man (yet)), but they're just cookie cutter homes.  
 
So, watching these HGTV shows got us in thinking.......what if we buy a real fixer upper (an older country style home) in a good neigbourhood and get it built to our satisfaction. Finding reliable contractors that can do this is a bit out of my scope and it would've been really nice to have someone like these Property Bro.'s locally, but it doesn't look like there's a service like that out here (at least from the little Googling I did).
 
Any thoughts, tips, advice on buying a fixer upper?
2014/04/25 12:36:13
jamesg1213
Unless you have hidden masochistic tendencies, don't even think about it.
 

2014/04/25 13:02:03
craigb
Step 1 - Watch the movie "The Money Pit"
Step 2 - Actually, there is no step 2.
 

 
(I've "been there, done that" and wasted $91k putting in something that really only cost $7k but, in doing so, discovered the house was so where near being up to code...   I've also had a house I was selling get so over-updated that it was one of three houses featured on HGTV, I still have that DVD to remind me of that waste of time and money too...  )
2014/04/25 13:02:24
jbow
Think it over... talk to some people. Folks watch these shows about house flipping and think that they can do it (I realize that is not what you are talking about but still...) the people on TV have a lot of experience and they still get in over their head sometime but they seem to have accumulated capital to weather the storm of unknowns and bad decisions. Someone with little experience can lose everything quickly in a flip or a remodel. It is the unknowns that cannot be known until you begin.
 
Now about buying an older home to fix up... it is just like it is on some of these shows. The house looks like it needs this or that until... UNTIL you start to fix things and you discover other things, you open a wall and find things that are not compliant with current building code and pretty soon you figure out that there is asbestos insulation on ductwork, or asbestos siding, the wiring is partially three wire and partially two wire (like my wife's office in a 40s house in town, it has asbestos siding too, we leave it alone.) All the outlets look like they are for thre prong plugs but some only have two wires, the ones we didn't add.
 
The older the house the more likely you are to have to change the plumbing, electrical wiring, add supports, worry about insulation (or the lack thereof)... my parents built their house in the 50s and they did not insulate the outer walls and my dad had a short 2x4 put head high or so between every stud in the walls, to easily hang pictures where ever.. in the future. Result, to insulate the walls with blown insulation, it would have to be done twice, once in the top part of the void and once in the lower. The point being, there is a risk in buying a house to fix up, the older the house, the greater the risk because of the nanny state with all their new building codes.
Home inspectors take NO responsibility for what they find or don't find. Being in the Pest Control industry and doing termite control I can tell you with absolute certainty that no builder builds the same way twice. A builder may build 10 houses in a neighborhood and do 10 different odd things on 10 different houses, they may or may not be up to code and there are different codes. There is the international building code and then different towns have different codes, even some neighborhoods have restriction codes (historic districts control everything you can do or not do to a home. Don't buy a home in a "historic district". Check with the local building inspector to see if there are county, city, state, or international building codes that they go by.
 
Usually if you buy a fixer up and just live in it.. no one says anything but the minute you begin to repair it here comes the government.
 
My sister bought an older home in Monticello, FL. Once they got it they found that the whole place needed to be rewired and needs a new roof. They put off rewiring, life happened and now they cannot afford to rewire and for some reason fixing the roof is involved with the rewiring... result: leaky roof, dangerous wiring, too expensive and no company will insure the house unless everything is brought up to current code. It is a nice looking older home that is slowly falling apart. Building is hard and expensive. Electrical should be done by a certified electrician, there are things you can do yourself, but if you make an error the inspector will make you redo everything and in some cases, if your permits aren't in order they will make you tear something down.
 
I'd say if you are young and strong and if you cover ALL your bases by asking the right people the right questions (take NOTHING for granted... people will assume you know things that you may or may not know) ask more than one person about everything you consider doing. Ask people who do renovations about homes that are the age of any home you consider buying, what common problems are for homes built at that time... don't take a "hme inspectors" word for anything, they are just a tool. They regularly tell people that moisture damage is termite damage... JUST BE CAREFUL AND CHECK ALL YOUR BASES TWICE AND ASK LOTS OF QUESTIONS.. THEN ASK IF THERE ARE QUESTIONS THAT YOU DIDN'T ASK.
 
I sound like a bleeding pessimist but I really DO NOT want to hear later that you thought you found the perfect place to fix up but it became a nightmare.
 
All that said... yeah. You can find a place with lots of potential and fix it up to be your dream home, just look before you leap... then look again before you leap.
I'm sure Herb has seen some things too... One thing is sure it will take you more than a hour like it does on TV, it will take more than 30 days like on TV unless you are a pro and know who to call and in what order to call them... that's another thing. If you do some things in the wrong order you may end up having to tear out something you did or had done because no one mentioned that if you want to do that.. you will have to do this first but you already did that and well, you can't do this unless you tear that out...
 
Really, you can do it just don't assume ANYTHING... ever... and ask two different people about everything that you are not sure of.. know your local and state codes and neighborhood rules.
 
J
2014/04/25 13:03:49
Mesh
jamesg1213
Unless you have a hidden cash flow, don't even think about it.
 




Sonar X3'd
2014/04/25 13:04:01
jbow
craigb
Step 1 - Watch the movie "The Money Pit"
Step 2 - Actually, there is no step 2.
 

 
(I've "been there, done that" and wasted $91k putting in something that really only cost $7k but, in doing so, discovered the house was so where near being up to code...   I've also had a house I was selling get so over-updated that it was one of three houses featured on HGTV, I still have that DVD to remind me of that waste of time and money too...  )




 
The Money Pit... that reminds me of the other name for a boat: "a hole in the water you throw money into", lol.
 
J
2014/04/25 13:04:43
craigb
jbow
Think it over... talk to some people. Folks watch these shows about house flipping and think that they can do it (I realize that is not what you are talking about but still...) the people on TV have a lot of experience and they still get in over their head sometime but they seem to have accumulated capital to weather the storm of unknowns and bad decisions. Someone with little experience can lose everything quickly in a flip.
 
Now about buying an older home to fix up... it is just like it is on some of these shows. The house looks like it needs this or that until... UNTIL you start to fix things and you discover other things, you open a wall and find things that are not compliant with current building code and pretty soon you figure out that there is asbestos insulation on ductwork, or asbestos siding, the wiring is partially three wire and partially two wire (like my wife's office in a 40s house in town, it has asbestos siding too, we leave it alone.) All the outlets look like they are for thre prong plugs but some only have two wires, the ones we didn't add.
 
The older the house the more likely you are to have to change the plumbing, electrical wiring, add supports, worry about insulation (or the lack thereof)... my parents built their house in the 50s and they did not insulate the outer walls and my dad had a short 2x4 put head high or so between every stud in the walls, to easily hang pictures where ever.. in the future. Result, to insulate the walls with blown insulation, it would have to be done twice, once in the top part of the void and once in the lower. The point being, there is a risk in buying a house to fix up, the older the house, the greater the risk because of the nanny state with all their new building codes.
Home inspectors take NO responsibility for what they find or don't find. Being in the Pest Control industry and doing termite control I can tell you with absolute certainty that no builder builds the same way twice. A builder may build 10 houses in a neighborhood and do 10 different odd things on 10 different houses, they may or may not be up to code and there are different codes. There is the international building code and then different towns have different codes, even some neighborhoods have restriction codes (historic districts control everything you can do or not do to a home. Don't buy a home in a "historic district". Check with the local building inspector to see if there are county, city, state, or international building codes that they go by.
 
Usually if you buy a fixer up and just live in it.. no one says anything but the minute you begin to repair it here comes the government.
 
My sister bought an older home in Monticello, FL. Once they got it they found that the whole place needed to be rewired and needs a new roof. They put off rewiring, life happened and now they cannot afford to rewire and for some reason fixing the roof is involved with the rewiring... result: leaky roof, dangerous wiring, too expensive and no company will insure the house unless everything is brought up to current code. It is a nice looking older home that is slowly falling apart. Building is hard and expensive. Electrical should be done by a certified electrician, there are things you can do yourself, but if you make an error the inspector will make you redo everything and in some cases, if your permits aren't in order they will make you tear something down.
 
I'd say if you are young and strong and if you cover ALL your bases by asking the right people the right questions (take NOTHING for granted... people will assume you know things that you may or may not know) ask more than one person about everything you consider doing. Ask people who do renovations about homes that are the age of any home you consider buying, what common problems are for homes built at that time... don't take a "hme inspectors" word for anything, they are just a tool. They regularly tell people that moisture damage is termite damage... JUST BE CAREFUL AND CHECK ALL YOUR BASES TWICE AND ASK LOTS OF QUESTIONS.. THEN ASK IF THERE ARE QUESTIONS THAT YOU DIDN'T ASK.
 
I sound like a bleeding pessimist but I really DO NOT want to hear later that you thought you found the perfect place to fix up but it became a nightmare.
 
All that said... yeah. You can find a place with lots of potential and fix it up to be your dream home, just look before you leap... then look again before you leap.
I'm sure Herb has seen some things too... One thing is sure it will take you more than a hour like it does on TV, it will take more than 30 days like on TV unless you are a pro and know who to call and in what order to call them... that's another thing. If you do some things in the wrong order you may end up having to tear out something you did or had done because no one mentioned that if you want to do that.. you will have to do this first but you already did that and well, you can't do this unless you tear that out...
 
Really, you can do it just don't assume ANYTHING... ever... and ask two different people about everything that you are not sure of.. know your local and state codes and neighborhood rules.
 
J




Hi Danny!  How did you get Julien's login??? 
2014/04/25 13:19:47
Mesh
jbow
Think it over... talk to some people. Folks watch these shows about house flipping and think that they can do it (I realize that is not what you are talking about but still...) the people on TV have a lot of experience and they still get in over their head sometime but they seem to have accumulated capital to weather the storm of unknowns and bad decisions. Someone with little experience can lose everything quickly in a flip or a remodel. It is the unknowns that cannot be known until you begin.
 
Now about buying an older home to fix up... it is just like it is on some of these shows. The house looks like it needs this or that until... UNTIL you start to fix things and you discover other things, you open a wall and find things that are not compliant with current building code and pretty soon you figure out that there is asbestos insulation on ductwork, or asbestos siding, the wiring is partially three wire and partially two wire (like my wife's office in a 40s house in town, it has asbestos siding too, we leave it alone.) All the outlets look like they are for thre prong plugs but some only have two wires, the ones we didn't add.
 
The older the house the more likely you are to have to change the plumbing, electrical wiring, add supports, worry about insulation (or the lack thereof)... my parents built their house in the 50s and they did not insulate the outer walls and my dad had a short 2x4 put head high or so between every stud in the walls, to easily hang pictures where ever.. in the future. Result, to insulate the walls with blown insulation, it would have to be done twice, once in the top part of the void and once in the lower. The point being, there is a risk in buying a house to fix up, the older the house, the greater the risk because of the nanny state with all their new building codes.
Home inspectors take NO responsibility for what they find or don't find. Being in the Pest Control industry and doing termite control I can tell you with absolute certainty that no builder builds the same way twice. A builder may build 10 houses in a neighborhood and do 10 different odd things on 10 different houses, they may or may not be up to code and there are different codes. There is the international building code and then different towns have different codes, even some neighborhoods have restriction codes (historic districts control everything you can do or not do to a home. Don't buy a home in a "historic district". Check with the local building inspector to see if there are county, city, state, or international building codes that they go by.
 
Usually if you buy a fixer up and just live in it.. no one says anything but the minute you begin to repair it here comes the government.
 
My sister bought an older home in Monticello, FL. Once they got it they found that the whole place needed to be rewired and needs a new roof. They put off rewiring, life happened and now they cannot afford to rewire and for some reason fixing the roof is involved with the rewiring... result: leaky roof, dangerous wiring, too expensive and no company will insure the house unless everything is brought up to current code. It is a nice looking older home that is slowly falling apart. Building is hard and expensive. Electrical should be done by a certified electrician, there are things you can do yourself, but if you make an error the inspector will make you redo everything and in some cases, if your permits aren't in order they will make you tear something down.
 
I'd say if you are young and strong and if you cover ALL your bases by asking the right people the right questions (take NOTHING for granted... people will assume you know things that you may or may not know) ask more than one person about everything you consider doing. Ask people who do renovations about homes that are the age of any home you consider buying, what common problems are for homes built at that time... don't take a "hme inspectors" word for anything, they are just a tool. They regularly tell people that moisture damage is termite damage... JUST BE CAREFUL AND CHECK ALL YOUR BASES TWICE AND ASK LOTS OF QUESTIONS.. THEN ASK IF THERE ARE QUESTIONS THAT YOU DIDN'T ASK.
 
I sound like a bleeding pessimist but I really DO NOT want to hear later that you thought you found the perfect place to fix up but it became a nightmare.
 
All that said... yeah. You can find a place with lots of potential and fix it up to be your dream home, just look before you leap... then look again before you leap.
I'm sure Herb has seen some things too... One thing is sure it will take you more than a hour like it does on TV, it will take more than 30 days like on TV unless you are a pro and know who to call and in what order to call them... that's another thing. If you do some things in the wrong order you may end up having to tear out something you did or had done because no one mentioned that if you want to do that.. you will have to do this first but you already did that and well, you can't do this unless you tear that out...
 
Really, you can do it just don't assume ANYTHING... ever... and ask two different people about everything that you are not sure of.. know your local and state codes and neighborhood rules.
 
J


Thanks Julien for the detailed reply.....I appreciate it.
Yeah, there's a lot to think about.....I'm only looking into this option to see if it's practical and doable. I forgot to mention that my father in-law is a genral contractor and he will be very closely looking into this before we jump in. Like you said, I'll definitely be asking a LOT of questions and not take anything for granted!!
2014/04/25 13:32:09
Guitarhacker
Buying an old house and fixing it up.....
 
You gotta remember that those TV shows, while technically called "Reality TV" are in fact, NOT reality.  They're entertaining and you can get some good ideas from watching them..... the best idea is that you can make a crappy old beat-up house look really good...... with the proper investment of time and of course, money.  Money doesn't seem to be an obstacle to many of those folks..... but here in the real world, folks like me have limited resources to work with..... but even that can be dealt with in a reasonable way.
 
Don't let them misguide you. It's not that easy, but it can be done, and not break the bank in the process.
 
On the flip side.... here's my experience. In NC the sale of a house is contingent on a termite inspection that will reveal if there are live bugs, or if there have been bugs there. Its a Law that every house being sold must be inspected. I went a step further before I bought the last one I picked up for rental income purposes. I hired a certified house inspector. That way, there were no surprises.
 
But lets go further back..... 30 years ago, my wife and I bought a house that was close to 90 years old at the time. It had been rented out previous to our purchase. Being a bit on the handy side of things I figured I could do 90% or more of the needed work. The house had good strong timbers and no termites so we bought it and moved in. We selected the room that we wanted for our master bedroom and set up camp in the other one. We started working on the house, one room at a time as we had the time and money to do.
 
Work consisted of sometimes simply painting a room. Other times it involved tearing out the cracked plaster walls, insulating the walls and installing new sheet rock. We also used a chainsaw to cut out the wall of a closet to make it a 6' wide closet with bi-fold doors rather than the 24" door closet that was there to start with.
 
We painted, replaced wood, installed sheet rock, built walls, tore other walls out, installed a central HVAC system, eventually re-plumbed the house, and even added on with a first floor master bedroom suite, enclosed the back porch to make a laundry room, built a deck and added on to it a few years later, and  the most fun project of all was to remove the chimney from the roof top to the floor level in the first floor den.
 
We didn't have a big budget for any of that. We took it one room at a time and did one project at a time. As we completed one, we were thinking about what was next and started planning for that. As it turned out, we're now kind of in the process of going back through the rooms.....since our daughters have moved out, we have painted and reworked those rooms back to a semblance of normalcy. No more weird colors.... although it did take several coats of paint to cover some of those colors..... they're gone now....
 
There is much satisfaction from buying an old house in fair cosmetic condition and working on it to restore it and put your mark on it. If you have to hire someone to do all the work, yes, it can turn into a huge money pit pretty quickly. SO, it would pay for you to have some skills in construction before you decide, or be willing to learn some things.
 
For example, I had never done any tile work previously. But when we were discussing the addition, we knew we wanted tile in the bathroom and in the entry hall. I went to the home improvement store and watched a demo class on how to do tile. I purchased the tools, the saw and the cutter and the trowels and other things to do the job right. Same thing with the trim carpentry and painting. Buy the tools that are pro quality. Even the cost of the tools will be much less than if you hired someone to do the job.  I followed the instructions on the laying of the tile and the job came out really nice. I even installed electric heat under the bathroom floor. I'm an electrician by trade so that was easy. I did tile, paint, trim carpentry, plumbing, electrical, demolition, ....practically anything and everything I could to avoid hiring a contractor to do the work.  
 
I did have a general contractor on the addition to do the foundation, the framing, the sheetrock and taping, and the roofing, as well as siding. If I wasn't sure how to do something, I asked the general contractor for advice and tips.  He never refused to assist me. The rest, I did. It took a bit longer to do it all myself, but I enjoy seeing the work and showing off my skills to people seeing our house for the first time.
 
Done right, a rehab project on an older house will look good, and give you the satisfaction of knowing you did the work.
2014/04/25 13:48:13
Mesh
Thanks Herb.......when can you start?
 
 
Although I don't mind learning at all in doing some of these things, I just don't have the available time to do it. If there was a contractor (reliable & trustworthy) who can oversee the whole project, I could look into getting some sort of a renovation loan.....(while keeping a little bit of headroom for unforeseen problems that might arise).
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