DELETE

"Freedom of expression" is a cute straw man argument but nobody is disputing your right to free speech. Put it this way, you also have the freedom of expression to walk up to a little girl and tell her she's ugly, but you'd be a dick if you did.

You need to get things in perspective. It's a sale. They're under no obligation, contractual or otherwise, to give away anything for free. The contract between vendor and customer is that you pay for something and they give it to you. Anything else is a bonus. You don't like what they're offering? Nobody has a gun to your head. Criticism of a company's sale offerings/pricing structure is one thing, but the hyperbole in this thread and others like it is completely inappropriate and quite frankly nasty. The use of the word "subhuman" above, for example. Overall I just get the impression that some people are more interested in acquiring plugins for the sake of it than they are in making music. Because nothing else would explain the rage.

sharke
"Freedom of expression" is a cute straw man argument but nobody is disputing your right to free speech. Put it this way, you also have the freedom of expression to walk up to a little girl and tell her she's ugly, but you'd be a dick if you did.

You need to get things in perspective. It's a sale. They're under no obligation, contractual or otherwise, to give away anything for free. The contract between vendor and customer is that you pay for something and they give it to you. Anything else is a bonus. You don't like what they're offering? Nobody has a gun to your head. Criticism of a company's sale offerings/pricing structure is one thing, but the hyperbole in this thread and others like it is completely inappropriate and quite frankly nasty. The use of the word "subhuman" above, for example. Overall I just get the impression that some people are more interested in acquiring plugins for the sake of it than they are in making music. Because nothing else would explain the rage.

This is your opinion, and you're entitled to it...ours is different...and we're entitled to it.
And if you don't like it you have every right to voice that discontent.

YOU need to get things in perspective...your rant is more of a "COUNTER-WEIGHT"
then a "valid" concern...

You don't have to like whats said...but you need to acknowledge that both Leadfoot,
OlPal, as well as myself, have EVERY RIGHT to express our "discontent" with their
SALE....even though it's THEIR SALE.

You are completely correct, companies are under NO OBLIGATION to do ANYTHING.
BUT, they DO have a "MORAL" and "SOCIAL" responsibility to their customers to do what's RIGHT...
at least they SHOULD.  But IK doesn't.  They do what they want and make no apologies for it.
As a matter of fact, they are down right SARCASTIC about it.  If you call out their FALSE 
facts..they respond with CYNICAL SARCASM.  The ONLY recourse we have is
to voice our discontent...and NOT buy their products...but if we've already invested
HEAVILY into the company's products..and then they SHAFT YOU for buying them...
and then say "HA...too bad sucker!"...doesn't that seem just a little "demeaning" to you?

Ok...let's look at this...they come out with new products...2 weeks later there's a sale,
and they state that those who already purchased are included...So, now it's a BOGO...
so, if you already own EVERYTHING except the NEW, and THEY are excluded from 
the sale, you don't think you, the loyal customer, have a RIGHT to be discontent
that you spent your money (or are going to spend) but NOW get NOTHING?

THAT is a travesty....plain and simple...just as IK's demeaning attitude is...
If the customer is the REASON, then LISTEN...and respond IN KIND...not IN SARCASM.
THAT is what a Company Rep is supposed to do...not be a sarcastic malcontent....

Leadfoot was only saying that THEY (IK) seem to treat their customers as if they are 
"less then human".

That is the ONLY point that was being made here....

A moral and social obligation to give you the free stuff you want? Now I've heard everything....
 
As far as I can see, Peter becomes slightly sarcastic in his posts after IK has been attacked. His first response in this thread seems pretty reasonable to me. And then of course the hyperbole starts..."BS...This is a CROCK...tired of this corporate/political CRAP" etc....
 
And "subhuman/less than human," it's the same thing. I can't think of a more inappropriate, over the top word. There are people in this world who really are being treated like they are subhuman, and yet here we have someone who thinks he's being treated "like a subhuman" because someone from a plugin company is talking to him in a sarcastic tone. 
 
I don't know where this idea comes from, where people think that just because they've bought a few items from a company that they have some kind of moral entitlement to free stuff on their terms. I probably spend more on nutritional supplements than I do on plugins, mostly from the same company, and not once have I felt slighted because they haven't offered me free stuff, or because I didn't like an offer they put out. What I've bought from them, I've bought from them - I paid my money, I'm happy with the product, I don't expect anything more. 
 
A company rep is obliged to listen to criticism. But the whole tone of that criticism on this forum is above and beyond what I'd expect any employee to put up with. 

As my original post shows I actually agree with my ol pal Sharke on this one. I thought their deal sucked and chose not to participate. In fact, I thanked them, even if in a backhanded way, for helping me make that decision and keep my money in my pocket. It wasn't until ol IK got so snotty that I got "reinvolved". He rebuffed my initial honest offer of constructive criticism. So be it. I also agree he's taken quite a drubbing. But if you'll read back through the thread (yawn) you'll likely see he's been digging his own grave. So screw him and the horse he rode in on.

I'm sorry if my use of that word got you riled. I was referring to the way he was speaking to his customers, like they were beneath him. When I have an angry customer that's dissatisfied with a product, it's my job to try to resolve it. But even if I can't, it's my job to remain respectful and professional at all times. Mr. IK apparently never learned that rule. He could take a lesson from the Cakewalk staff.

yorolpal
As my original post shows I actually agree with my ol pal Sharke on this one. I thought their deal sucked and chose not to participate. In fact, I thanked them, even if in a backhanded way, for helping me make that decision and keep my money in my pocket. It wasn't until ol IK got so snotty that I got "reinvolved". He rebuffed my initial honest offer of constructive criticism. So be it. I also agree he's taken quite a drubbing. But if you'll read back through the thread (yawn) you'll likely see he's been digging his own grave. So screw him and the horse he rode in on.

This is what I stated...that we have the right to "not buy" AND to express our displeasure...

I don't agree with Sharke....not in the context of this thread....sorry...

I don't want EITHER of these NEW things Sharke...sorry...I wont' pay their ridiculous prices...
but, for those who DO...this is a scam...and YES his post was "BS and political CRAP"...

My point is AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN that:

YOU DON'T EXCLUDE YOUR CUSTOMERS IN ANY WAY - NONE OF THEM..
it's not GOOD business...to give them the "business"...


and YOU DON'T TREAT YOUR CUSTOMERS WITH ANYTHING BUT COURTESY...

I"m done with this insanity...

From what I can see, Peter's first comment in the thread was quite reasonable. It was met with this "CRAP! Corporate BS" rhetoric. His second post wasn't particularly snarky or sarcastic either. Cue: "It's a scam!" (Oh really? A scam?) Cue "Arrogant! Irresponsible" (Irresponsible?) "Your research is completely wrong"? (Based on what. A single data point consisting of yourself?) "Cheap! Greedy" -- they're just trying to make a profit like every other company in existence. "Kicking us in the face?" it goes on an on. Totally over the top. To be honest, in light of the language being used, I think he showed remarkable restraint. 

Welp...that's what makes a horse race. For the record, IK owes me nothing. Period. I can choose to buy their products or not no matter what their corporate marketing, updating or pricing policies are. I would, however appreciate their spokesmen being friendly, honest and, above all, not rude and condescending. And if you can read IKs comments and not think he was being snotty...then either your "snarky meter"...or mine needs some serious adjustment. But thanks for dropping by to chide us anyway. It's always good to hear another perspective. Wait...why is that little bell sounding??

I'm not saying that some of Peter's comments weren't a little bit snarky. They were. But they were in direct response to the language being used, which was nothing short of over the top. It always amazes me how quick people are to roll out that level of vitriol in response to what in the greater scheme of things are neither here nor there. And if they get so much as a grain of snark in response...oh my god the humanity!