Agreed. But I think I'm being tarred by someone else's brush. I've read through my posts again and still think for the most part I was not engaged in the sort of hyperbolic rhetoric you're describing. Sorry, if I was.

Wasn't really you I was directing it to to be honest. I didn't really want to single anyone out in general, I was just taking a swipe at the general tone of the thread. 

IK is being criticized for not giving away their products on one hand but then, they're continually accused of devaluating their products by making them so cheap and having ridiculous sales all the time. All I know is that I can only thank them for the great tools they sold me at a very reasonable price. And occasionally rip on them for the elusive Sampletank 3. ;)
 
At the end of the day, all I care about is that IK's Pultec and Fairchild (both of which cost me pocket change) are among my favorite 3rd party tools - and they're actually my go-to plugs for rock guitar tracks these days. 
 
The way I see it, if a plug-in I want isn't on sale now, it'll most likely be sometime in the future. At least, IK is rather reliable in that respect. And if a sale is of no interest, then so be it. Getting all reeled up and going to do any good.
 
I'm trying to imagine myself getting mad at Gibson because they made a blue Les Paul and put it on sale - and I hate the colour blue...
 
Maybe because their reps are present on forums such as these, people tend to unwind on IK. I don't think there'd be half as much hatred and rage against them if not for the fact that people can nurture it by interacting with reps. The level of commitment to that is quite fantastic.
 
You know, most of the people I interact with IRL are 100% oblivious to that kind of debate - dozens of musicians and engineers who use IK products happily. Most of them don't spend any time on forums talking about the products they use, they just use them. We are a very particular type of users, and by no mean are we the majority, far from it.
 
 
 

I think the questions you have to ask yourself concerning any vendor are: Did I want the product? Am I happy with the product at the price I paid? Is their customer support adequate? And that's it. It's a voluntary transaction and nobody owes anyone any favors. On the one hand, you were prepared to pay the money for the product. On the other hand, they were prepared to spend hundreds of hours developing it (not to mention the years they spent learning the relevant skills). I just can't imagine feeling p!ssed because a special offer didn't take my fancy. I don't own any IK products, but I've spent close to $1500 on Native Instruments products over the last couple of years. I don't expect anything else in return, just the products I bought, which I purchased because I like them and I thought they were good value for money. They've sent me loads of "special offers" which I didn't think were good value for money. Upgrade to Session Horns Pro for the "special price" of $299? No thanks. I'd really like it, but I don't think it's good value for money and I feel like it should be cheaper than that for existing Session Horns users. However, the price is their call and if they make money off of it, good luck to them. If they don't, then it might persuade them to rethink their pricing in the future. Either way is fine with me. I just can't imagine laying into a NI representative on a forum because of it.

From what I can see, Peter's first comment in the thread was quite reasonable. It was met with this "CRAP! Corporate BS" rhetoric. His second post wasn't particularly snarky or sarcastic either. Cue: "It's a scam!" (Oh really? A scam?) Cue "Arrogant! Irresponsible" (Irresponsible?) "Your research is completely wrong"? (Based on what. A single data point consisting of yourself?) "Cheap! Greedy" -- they're just trying to make a profit like every other company in existence. "Kicking us in the face?" it goes on an on. Totally over the top. To be honest, in light of the language being used, I think he showed remarkable restraint.
 
 
Excellent points, Sharke.

IMO there seems to be an unhealthy hatred for IK by a small handful of people who seem to be carrying a vendetta against the company and their representative.

I can understand the frustration regarding long over-due upgrades and being on the wrong side of a sale price but some of the anger is at an absurd level.

IMO this thread is like a few others in the past year where the IK representative is being bullied, harrassed, insulted and then he's the one accused of snarky responses.

Let me just say this...

NO PERSON EVER..and no RESEARCH EVER, said people don't want sales on new plugins...
What they were speaking of when talking of this was about releasing a product at $150
and then,  a week or two later, putting in on sale for $50....THAT is the problem that was
being discussed in the "Market Research"....NOT that BOGO should exclude the NEW plugins...
they even ALREADY stated that ALL PREVIOUS CUSTOMERS WERE INCLUDED...so THERE WAS
NO REASON WHATSOEVER, as NO ONE WOULD HAVE BEEN SHAFTED OR EXCLUDED!

I DON'T EVEN BUY IK ANYMORE...haven't for quite awhile...

What was stated is a LIE, and THAT IS THE CRAP, and the POLITICAL BS I WAS REFERRING TO....
and you all have some serious issues going on to defend such remarks as:

"Sorry our sale doesn't meet you needs...but it does meet others"...WHATEVER...
and say that was a "Courteous response"

And
 
"I'll inform our people that the research was wrong"

Every remark they made was condescending, false, and arrogant...end of story...

Yes that's quite Professional...

Good luck boys...I'm done with this forum....

They're obviously a successful company and I'm guessing quite a large turnover and have been for some time, so clearly whatever they've been doing hasn't been enough to drive the majority of their customers away. I have no reason to believe that their market research isn't what they say it is, and neither do you. Whether a plugin is on sale for a third of the price a week after release, or whether it's included in a BOGO sale, I find the idea that people who've just paid the full price could find this annoying quite plausible. Look, it just obviously doesn't make good business sense for them to include brand new plugs in a sale. No doubt that once a certain period of time has passed, they will be included in future sales. 
 
So your assertion that he's a liar is nothing more than conjecture. But why are you so passionate about it, given that you have nothing to do with the company anyway? 
 
Once again: his remarks became a little snarky after he was attacked, insulted, called a liar etc. Far from being a sign of "corporate BS," he's actually showing a human side. Corporate BS would have been to roll out some cloying stock response. I kinda like that he fights back a little. This is the music biz, not high finance. 

Here's my $.02
 
I've got all the plugins that I really need... and then some
Like Ol Pal, I didn't care for the BOGO sale... as I have everything else IK that I want.
I have not yet picked up the Neve EQs
May do so... at some point
 
In particular, I like the IKMM Pultec, 1176, LA-2A, and Peak-Limiter plugins.
 
I can see valid points on both sides.
IKMM has "stumbled" (probably an understatement) on the release of ST3.
The group-buys (while great for saving $$$), do affect the perception of cost/value.  It changes expectations.
I get the frustration.
I also think that IKMM reps do get "hammered" here on these forums.
Everyone certainly has a right to feel/express whatever they choose.
Maybe the IK reps deserve it... maybe they don't
It just gets a bit tired reading the same old argument over-and-over.
 
There are so many more *interesting* things to discuss!  
 
 
 

tom1

IMO there seems to be an unhealthy hatred for IK by a small handful of people who seem to be carrying a vendetta against the company and their representative.

I can understand the frustration regarding long over-due upgrades and being on the wrong side of a sale price but some of the anger is at an absurd level.

IMO this thread is like a few others in the past year where the IK representative is being bullied, harrassed, insulted and then he's the one accused of snarky responses.

I agree 100%.  I've not been too interested in jumping into this, but these comments were so well stated that I felt compelled to chime in with a hearty endorsement.  There are a small group of people who have every right to have smoke coming out of their ears in extreme anger regarding ST3.  These are the owners of IK (a privately held company, I'm pretty certain).  These are the folks who are truly being hurt by the delays in ST3, hurt where it's really painful - in the pocketbook.  Nobody else has any entitlement to make the claim "I'm gettin' screwed", IMO.

dmbaer
I've not been too interested in jumping into this

 
+1 but you say.

dmbaer
There are a small group of people who have every right to have smoke coming out of their ears in extreme anger regarding ST3.  These are the owners of IK (a privately held company, I'm pretty certain).  These are the folks who are truly being hurt by the delays in ST3, hurt where it's really painful - in the pocketbook. 

 
But this ^^^^^^ is very true. I would be far more concerned as a share holder than as a customer.
 
The companies employees also may not feel too comfortable, when a major project runs into interminable delays like this there will be repercussions for sure.