I have a feeling it's like an old mechanic listening to a V-8.......

charlyg
I have a feeling it's like an old mechanic listening to a V-8.......

Haha yep that's what I'm thinking...

Yes charlyg has nailed that! I wish I could state the rules as to how ballistics should be but I cannot. Yes it just all about watching how great masters move the needles and learning from it.
 
I can say though that the nice masters always just reach 0 dB VU and never go over it much ie overshoot.  Great masters don't make the needle swing wildly either. Amateur mixes tend to move the needle in a more wild unpredictable way and they tend to overshoot a lot.  When there is wild swings in the premastered mix often it if just one thing that is doing it too. So you solo the tracks one by one with the VU meter over that and you will soon find it.  Sub sonics and useless high frequencies also make the needle swing wildly.  VU meters have a fantastic flat frequency response too from nearly DC to well over the hearing range.
 
Also cheap VU meters are not the go either in terms of real ones. You have to spend $100 plus for each meter to even get something that is in the pro class.  They do come up on eBay though.  You have to ensure the electronics driving them is correct too ie output impedance of the driving circuit. If it’s not the ballistics get screwed as well.
 
 
 

You mean my  Line 6  Toneport VUs are crap?
 
I know, I know. I don't use it anymore. It was my "in" to Pod Farm...

Thanks Jeff, very interesting. I know you speak highly of the Klanghelm Vu meters, so would they be a good learning tool and if so, is there any particular way they should be 'setup'?

Jeff is still rabbiting on about VU meter's :)...yes I'm sure in the past VU's would have been nice but once you work out where a mix is suppose to sit visually...which is something I've recommended by way of a spectrum analyser...you train your ears to hear how a mix should sound and feel. Try this: https://soundcloud.com/aa.iomystiks/dontmean-maybe
 
One thing I don't think is trumpeted enough is learn how to use what you have...case in point...I use the Waves H-Comp as my main mastering compressor...it's amazing...has a VU meter too-but I've had it for over a year and only in the last two weeks have I got it...first you set a generic ratio...about 1:8 for the master...then you slowly turn the threshold till it starts to compress...then if the mix is still sounding a little hollow...you turn the ratio-up very slowly and amazing is the only way to describe the result...the H-Comp also has a secondary attack or punch knob...I'm not sure but it might be a knee...there is no instructions but you use that to tune the transient and you can hear it when it is correct...finally it has four "analogue" settings again no instructions as to what the analogue knob is actually emulating-hence it takes a year to master said compressor-my hunch is setting 4 is a Fairchild because it makes the stereo image wider...vert lat for those who know what a Fairchild does but it is an amazing compressor for mastering and drums.
 
Another thing I worked out which I knew but because of ADHD/Aspergers (I find it really difficult to change my patterns) was to use a little EQ between the different stages...this allows you to fit everything in...so on the master buss before everything use the Linear Phase EQ to take out some of the bottom end at around 40hz and the top end 18-19khz...just listen and as soon as you hear the difference...back it off a tad...then use the pro channel EQ set to Pure and watch how the spectrum analyser shows you what the track is doing...then tune the transients to the shape of the mix...one day I will get around to doing a tutorial...but when I figured that last step out-understanding how a mix looks in the pro channel EQ and then set the EQ accordingly-even the hardest mixes fell into place.  If you use the EQ before the compressor make sure you use another Linear Phase EQ after...then hunt for the formant of the track...you will hear it...the track all of a sudden opens up...don't be afraid to roll of a bit more bottom end if that kick and bass are clashing...I like to put Waves Kramer Master tape after this...really gentle transient compression and it fattens the bottom end again...and again you might need some more EQ finally the concrete limiter...which has no instructions- is fantastic now I've figured it out...it only took 3 or 4 years...when you switch on the bass boost (which you wont always need) make sure you turn on the release switch and use your ear to tune the saturation...you can hear it when the track pops.  Have a listen to the above link...it only took me 7 years to get it to that point but once you learn how to use what you have...you will be amazed at what you can do...mastering...even without a VU...sorry Jeff...I know you love your VU but I think I could teach you a thing or two without a VU ;)
 
Peace Ben

That sounds good, but it sounds like "my" bass tone going in has little to do with what is coming out of your mix.
This player would not like that very much.. Maybe I mean character, because no matter what the tune, I want a little of that SVT growl. Just a tad, but I would be sad if it was removed during EQ somehow. I'm not talkin full on Chris Squire grind, just that bit of SVT character that sets it apart. A tad even sounds good on the slow "round sound" ballads. A little bit goes a long way.
 
PS - I'm still learning so.........

BenMMusTech
Jeff is still rabbiting on about VU meter's :)...yes I'm sure in the past VU's would have been nice but once you work out where a mix is suppose to sit visually...which is something I've recommended by way of a spectrum analyser...you train your ears to hear how a mix should sound and feel. Try this: https://soundcloud.com/aa.iomystiks/dontmean-maybe
 
One thing I don't think is trumpeted enough is learn how to use what you have...case in point...I use the Waves H-Comp as my main mastering compressor...it's amazing...has a VU meter too-but I've had it for over a year and only in the last two weeks have I got it...first you set a generic ratio...about 1:8 for the master...then you slowly turn the threshold till it starts to compress...then if the mix is still sounding a little hollow...you turn the ratio-up very slowly and amazing is the only way to describe the result...the H-Comp also has a secondary attack or punch knob...I'm not sure but it might be a knee...there is no instructions but you use that to tune the transient and you can hear it when it is correct...finally it has four "analogue" settings again no instructions as to what the analogue knob is actually emulating-hence it takes a year to master said compressor-my hunch is setting 4 is a Fairchild because it makes the stereo image wider...vert lat for those who know what a Fairchild does but it is an amazing compressor for mastering and drums.
 
Another thing I worked out which I knew but because of ADHD/Aspergers (I find it really difficult to change my patterns) was to use a little EQ between the different stages...this allows you to fit everything in...so on the master buss before everything use the Linear Phase EQ to take out some of the bottom end at around 40hz and the top end 18-19khz...just listen and as soon as you hear the difference...back it off a tad...then use the pro channel EQ set to Pure and watch how the spectrum analyser shows you what the track is doing...then tune the transients to the shape of the mix...one day I will get around to doing a tutorial...but when I figured that last step out-understanding how a mix looks in the pro channel EQ and then set the EQ accordingly-even the hardest mixes fell into place.  If you use the EQ before the compressor make sure you use another Linear Phase EQ after...then hunt for the formant of the track...you will hear it...the track all of a sudden opens up...don't be afraid to roll of a bit more bottom end if that kick and bass are clashing...I like to put Waves Kramer Master tape after this...really gentle transient compression and it fattens the bottom end again...and again you might need some more EQ finally the concrete limiter...which has no instructions- is fantastic now I've figured it out...it only took 3 or 4 years...when you switch on the bass boost (which you wont always need) make sure you turn on the release switch and use your ear to tune the saturation...you can hear it when the track pops.  Have a listen to the above link...it only took me 7 years to get it to that point but once you learn how to use what you have...you will be amazed at what you can do...mastering...even without a VU...sorry Jeff...I know you love your VU but I think I could teach you a thing or two without a VU ;)
 
Peace Ben

I tried the H-Comp on the master bus a while ago and was very pleased with how it sounded. Great compressor for all tasks. That analog knob though...sure it just doesn't add hiss? 

Jeff, good stuff as usual. Just wanted to share a little about a good multiband. Though I don't usually condone it, it's excellent for mastering if you know how to use it. For example, after I get a mix exactly the way I want it, I'll throw a multiband on to police everything. I use the UAD Precision MB and man....it's not only seamless, it's very transparent.
 
I could master an entire song (and have) with just it instead of an eq. Mind you, the only mixes I've done with it alone were my own....but man it sure did sound good. The object is to eq and compress all in one go while carving your mix. For example, just about none of my material will have sub lows under 40 Hz. I just don't need anything that low in my stuff. I do like to add sub harmonics of 50 Hz or even 60 Hz in. The MB I use controls that so well, it's crazy. You see it kick in but you don't hear it pump or clamp down.
 
Once I get that frequency just right, I can literally raise the level on that and it just enhances things like adding a frequency in an eq BUT....that frequency never crosses the line. I can do this with several frequencies and really have an awesome outcome without doing much of anything else. A lot of my pre-production stuff ends up being that way. Then I go back and listen to it later and say "oh wow, I remember how I did that.....this actually sounds quite good!"
 
But like I say, you have to have all the right stuff in your mix going on....and if you don't, you may have to pre-master and then do this stuff. But I really don't even do that to use the MB. See, this to me, is the problem with a lot of videos that show stuff like this. This may not work with a home recordist that is not up on his game. Like you said, it can ruin things quick.
 
That said, I use my MB on everything I master just to police the frequencies I adjust, or need to tame. If you have the right MB at your disposal, you have to really use it to the extreme to make it ruin something. OR...your mix is in such bad shape, it needs other things first before it even gets mastered.
 
To me, MB's will always be either used as a surgical tool for certain situations, for fine tuning something that is already in good shape or just as a police force that stops things from crossing that line. :)
 
-Danny

I did not want to say that multiband is out either. I think that after reading your post Danny it should be in of course they can sound great.  I like what single band compression does too.  I have a got one or two multibands and sometimes I have put them over a mix and really liked what I was hearing.
 
And yes it is very good how you can do the eq shaping at the same time by raising or lowering the makeup gains of the individual bands for sure. That and the EQ that precedes it would make a formidable team. Every VST you have recommend to me sounds as good as you say and I don't doubt it.
 
It seems that in some ways you have got to get all the bands moving dynamically, even if it’s small, compatible with each other perhaps. To keep the tone intact I find it works keeping similar amounts of GR in each band. It is nice to also keep that compression just sitting on the top part of the loudness changes too.
 
I need a new UAD system in my latest computer. Any ideas or recommendations for a nice multiband outside the UAD realm. No expense variety of course. I do have the multiband inside Harrison Mixbus and it is a nice compressor as well. I like the interface, it is interesting. With that you can set a gain reduction limit so that any band actually stops GR downward at a point and will go no further which I also like too. I find it is very transparent in that mode. Am about to move up to V3 as well on that.