So,
I've been using Cakewalk stuff for about 2 years now, starting with Music Creator 6.
I've moved on to Sonar X3 for the past year, before upgrading to Sonar X3 Studio. What I've noticed is, my mixes sound weak and empty. And also extremely treble based. I'm not sure.

I use primarily MIDI drums, created with Step Sequences using Session Drummer 2. For the guitar and bass, I just record the USB out of my Fender Mustang I, because that provides all I really need for that side of things. For the vocals, I use Vocaloid 3, Hatsune Miku V3 English and Avanna. I'm not even close to being good with that yet, so we'll leave that alone XD
I use a fair combination of synths as well. Z3ta+, Cakewalk Sound Centre etc etc.
 
So what is it that I'm lacking? What is it exactly that I am deprived of in my mixes? Compression? EQ? Mastering? Basic mixing? Leave your thoughts below!


Cheers to all replies and help! 

Edit:
Here's a few examples:
"Girl" from my Interloop EP, my latest stuff.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=cF6s3OQYkD8
 
"Final Parts", My earlier stuff from when I was "Deus" (Before realizing that name was taken...)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI-CMTxG9nA
 
 

Hi Ken,
 
Why do you not post a link to a song of yours in the songs forum, then peeps can hear what you are talking about.
 
Please note that I think you need five or more posts under your belt before links work properly, but you can still add the url without the http part, I think...
 
cheers
 
andy

Without listening to the mixes... have you checked that you haven't somehow started incurring some kind of phasing problems? Weak and trebly for no apparent reason kind of indicates a phase issue of some sort.
 
Welcome to the forum.

Cheers for the welcome!
Phase isn't an issue, it's certainly fine on that hand. By "Trebley", I mean it's certainly lacking the "Oomph" of professional mixes. I'm not sure if it's missing enough bass end or mid range, or just has too much high end. Or it could be the lack of compression or mastering?

I think your best course of action at this point might be to get your post count above 25 so you can post direct links and then post your work in the Songs subforum for people to check. Ask for mix recommendations and explain what you have here. Those guys have good ears and are happy to listen/give general thoughts. Then you can start pinning down specific issues.
 
In the meantime I've personally been spending some of my "down" time watching various mixing tutorials on youtube, reading articles, etc.
 
Sorry, I thought this was more about you had good sounding mixes then all of a sudden they got thin due to some random even which is why I brought up phase stuff. Mixing is obviously a complex topic so there is unfortunately no easy answer and it is all rather subjective.
 
Cheers!

Excessive treble is probably an indication of a less-than-neutral monitoring environment, a combination of the speakers and the room. You're simply not hearing everything correctly and consequently compensating for shortcomings in your playback system.
 
Fixing that is time-consuming and expensive. It's why mastering engineers have $50,000 speakers and scientifically-designed rooms. Fortunately, there are things you can do that don't require a second mortgage.
 
The first and easiest thing you can do is use a spectrum analyzer on your master bus. This will help you distinguish between what you hear and what's really there. Load up some of your favorite commercial recordings and get used to seeing what they look like on the analyzer so you'll know when your own stuff is in the ballpark.
 
Next step is to take objective measurements so you can get an idea where the weaknesses lie. This can be as simple as playing white noise through your speakers while recording them with a reasonably good condenser microphone positioned where your ears normally are, and then observing the spectral distribution via SPAN or similar spectrum analyzer.
 
Although this kind of crude measurement doesn't paint the whole picture (you need a waterfall plot to see a more complete picture) it's a start and can be an eye-opener.
 
Do you use a subwoofer? If so, it may just be turned up to loud. Most have a volume control on them. Even if you don't use a sub, many powered speakers have bass and treble adjustments on the back. In either case, you may just be hearing too much bass while monitoring. If you're only monitoring through headphones, your cans are probably bass-hyped, as many consumer headphones are. Better (flatter) headphones are a fairly inexpensive investment, maybe $100-150.

bitflipper
Excessive treble is probably an indication of a less-than-neutral monitoring environment, a combination of the speakers and the room. You're simply not hearing everything correctly and consequently compensating for shortcomings in your playback system.
 
Fixing that is time-consuming and expensive. It's why mastering engineers have $50,000 speakers and scientifically-designed rooms. Fortunately, there are things you can do that don't require a second mortgage.
 
The first and easiest thing you can do is use a spectrum analyzer on your master bus. This will help you distinguish between what you hear and what's really there. Load up some of your favorite commercial recordings and get used to seeing what they look like on the analyzer so you'll know when your own stuff is in the ballpark.
 
Next step is to take objective measurements so you can get an idea where the weaknesses lie. This can be as simple as playing white noise through your speakers while recording them with a reasonably good condenser microphone positioned where your ears normally are, and then observing the spectral distribution via SPAN or similar spectrum analyzer.
 
Although this kind of crude measurement doesn't paint the whole picture (you need a waterfall plot to see a more complete picture) it's a start and can be an eye-opener.
 
Do you use a subwoofer? If so, it may just be turned up to loud. Most have a volume control on them. Even if you don't use a sub, many powered speakers have bass and treble adjustments on the back. In either case, you may just be hearing too much bass while monitoring. If you're only monitoring through headphones, your cans are probably bass-hyped, as many consumer headphones are. Better (flatter) headphones are a fairly inexpensive investment, maybe $100-150.

To the OP: Read this above over and over....it's most likely the majority of your problem.
 
The second part of the problem is, a sound is only as "big" as it was recorded. Some synths just sound small. EzDrummer for example, is a very small sounding drum kit. You can try to make it bigger with stereo enhancement and doubling etc. but that will not make the sound bigger. See, there is a difference between enlarging a sound, and having a BIG recorded sound. Mic's and rooms can make a sound big. You don't have that luxury with synths. They are what they are.
 
Example, if I put a cheap mic on one speaker of my guitar cab, the sound will be relatively small. If I put a good mic on that speaker, and another one a few feet away and then another at the back of the room, now I'm creating a big sound source.
 
So some sounds are just going to be small in nature, other times you could be missing the boat on what you are hearing. Listen to what bitflipper said. Your monitor environment is huge. If you don't hear the right frequencies or the right stuff, you can't make the right decisions.
 
If you have too much bass in your monitors and don't know it, you will automatically mix bass light in your mixes...which will appear to be more treble based. If your sound lacks bass like mine used to in my NS-10's without a sub, I loaded up bass and my mixes were super muddy and bass heavy. Definitely check out your monitors and room before you look into the stuff I'm talking about.
 
-Danny

to get good at mixing,
you have to have good monitors,
a balanced/treated room,
or software to correct for it,
and you have to have spent hundreds of hours listening to your favorite pro mixes thru those good monitors to learn how those mixes translate AND what you have to do to your mixes to make them sound the same.
 
if you listen to well recorded guitar tracks a lot,
that will inform you as to your own guitar tracks.
 
drums, same.
vocals, same.
 
the most pure path from source to mix,
is a good mic,
a good preamp,
a good room,
a good source,
and minimal processing of any kind.
 
 
 
 
start with THAT,
and you are more than half way there.