2014/04/09 14:35:51
chulaivet1966
Yes...recording acoustic can be challenging.
Starise has some good tips.
Finding that mic sweet spot and mitigating proximity effect takes some time.
As Kennywtelejazz states just do it with some experimentation and adjust (learn) from there.
 
Good luck....
2014/04/09 19:15:53
clintmartin
As with everything else...dive in and learn the hard way. I'm ok with that. I love trying to figure out this stuff. I did actually have one of the new James Tyler Variax guitars, but I didn't really care for it much. I kept turning the knob to Stratocaster...I decided to just use my Stratocaster. I did keep my HD500 and DT50. It's a great live setup.
2014/04/09 20:41:39
rebel007
Try a vertical spaced pair, gives a nice stereo image. Kind of low tones in the left and high in the right. Use SDCs and add them to the sound of a LDC or even the pick up in the guitar itself. (Starise put me onto this method)..
2014/04/09 21:42:20
clintmartin
Starise
I still haven't gotten a sound on my acoustic that I am really happy with...granted I'm playing on a low end Martin..not a bad guitar but certainly a few notches down from the better ones.
 
If you go by what has been written about recording acoustic guitars , then you would use a few SDC mics one around the neck about 12" up and fairly close and one closer to the sound hole on the other side. 
 
Clint I think you have made some pretty good guitar recordings already. No harm in trying to better it though.
 
My best results with my Martin have been to mix a combination of direct input from the electronics and then use at least two other mics. Not sure why SDC are the type of mic recommended as I think any decent mic should pick up the sound.
 
So I end up with usually at least three tracks from my acoustic...what I do but there may be better ways.


Thanks for the ideas guys. I'll be trying them.
 
2014/04/10 08:19:05
Guitarhacker
Recording a good sounding acoustic has been among the hardest things I have tried to do.
 
If you are not getting a "good mic'd acoustic sound" don't be too quick to blame the guitar since it's cheap, or old, or whatever. There's way more that goes into getting a good acoustic sound than that old guitar. I found this out when I bought my Taylor a few years back. I had been using an old, beat-up, broken neck, Ibanez. When I got the Taylor, I thought... OK this will solve the sound quality issues.... uhhhh not not so fast there hoss.....  It sounded better, and it played better, and didn't have that broken neck, but,,,,, there were other things at play that I had to learn first, to get a pristine, and acceptable sound quality from the acoustic guitars I owned.
 
There are so many aspects to the sound of the guitar that the mic pics up, besides the sound of the strings, and that varies depending on where the mic is placed and even with the mic you are using. 
 
The sound of the body with the lower and mid frequencies is generally a sound I do not wish to have a lot of in the final sound. I tend to mic further away from the sound hole as a result. If I do get the mic in close, sometimes 6", it tends to be off axis from the sound hole down the neck a bit and I often need to cut the mids to get a decent sound.
 
It has been an ongoing lesson in patience and perseverance for me in many respects.
 
I find that the mandolin, while acoustic as well, mics up pretty nicely close in. I guess the body resonance doesn't have the larger space and therefore a bigger mid/low resonant sound.
 
With an acoustic guitar, it will always sound so much better with new strings. Even my old "beater" acoustic sounds good with new strings. I heard years ago, and they may actually still do it,  in Nashville studios, they would change the strings on the acoustic guitars during the recording sessions after just 30 minutes to keep the very bright sound of the strings from fading. I think that's a bit over zealous but it makes sense. They also used very heavy gauges since picking leads wasn't done often.... mostly strumming.  I think, that while the guitar plays a big part in the sound you can record, (obviously), a fairly decent off brand name guitar with new strings, good intonation, proper use of EQ in the bin, and proper mic setup can sound amazingly good.
 
As far as where to start of how to proceed. Remember the KISS principle. Keep it simple. I generally place the mic on the stand and have it generally about 18" out somewhere directly in front of and slightly above the 12th fret aimed off axis slightly to the body and not aimed at the sound hole.  With a bit of EQ in the bin I can generally dial in a decent acoustic sound. That's my strumming set up.
 
For a picked acoustic lead, I like to move the mic in a bit closer.... 8" to 12" max and closer to the sound hole but again not aimed directly at it. This allows me to play a bit more gently and still get a good solid signal into the track.
 
The further out you move the mic, the less "body honk" you get but the more "room" you tend to get as well. One or the other.....
 
Of course, this is just a step on the pathway to learning more..... the main thing is to keep at it, keep working on mic placement, experiment with 2 mics, (which I have yet to do on any sort of a serious level) and experiment with EQ settings to discover that perfect acoustic sound.
 
I'm currently working on a new song I just wrote and this one has some strummed and picked acoustic so I'm working on lesson # 1248 on acoustic mic'ing.... or it might be #1348 ... I don't recall at this point. Point being... it's an ongoing experiment for better sound.
 
Have fun.
2014/04/10 12:45:17
michaelhanson
There is always this Cakewalk article that popped up a while back.  Method 1 and 2 are used mostly in my studio.  I have also had some success with a second mic over the back of my shoulder.
 
http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/kb/reader.aspx/2007013311
2014/04/10 14:04:01
Starise
That's a pretty cool video Mike. I listened to all of those and my favorites all involed the SDC mics. My absolute favorite was the verticle spaced pair and second was the spaced pair.
 
If you listened to the single condenser recording, you might agree that it wasn't overtly boosted in the bass ranges.....a reason that I think SDCs are more commonly used...the fear that they might pick up too much of the boom from the acoustic cavity. I think in this case proximity is everything.
 
You could also use a verticle spaced pair configuration, only use an SDC on the top and a LDC  on the bottom.  You would be primarily picking up the higher strings from the lower mic that way.
 
The article didn't mention using the direct electronics ( or if it did I missed it ) I think this can add a lot to an acoustic guitar recording. One thing to remember though is to use fresh batteries in the guitar. I had my bass out the other day and I couldn't figure out why it didn't have any Umph...low batts 
 
I totally agree Herb, new strings make a huge difference. I also think you can get a dud pair. I just changed a set not a week ago and they just sound dead to me...maybe I need to go with something else.
 
I love the idea of hearing a strum from left to right with that verticle spaced pair arrangement.
2014/04/10 14:44:29
michaelhanson
Most of the time I use only 1 LDC to mic my acoustic.  It depends on the song, but a lot of times the acoustic in my songs is not neccessarily the main instrument, but gets mixed in with a lot of electrics as well.  In those cases, I am not really sure that I am gaining anything by using 2 mic's.  If the acoustic is the main instrument and carries the song, then I have been experimenting with 2, mostly two LDC's stacked on top of one another.  I need to pick up a pair of SDC's one of these days. 
 
When I use an LDC my mic possition for my acoustic is normally somewhere between the 12th fret and the sound hole.  To close to the sound hole is too boomy or bassy.  I have to adjust the position to ear and it can be just a little different each time, for different songs.  The objective being, to capture the sound as close to fitting the song as possible in an effort to do as little EQ'ing as possible. 
 
New strings can make a huge difference in tone, brightness and liveliness.  I never record immediately after changing strings; I ussually give them a day or two to settle.  Brand new strings slip out of tune to much for me and have ruined good performance takes before. 
 
Picks can also make a big difference in the recorded tone.  Light hard plastic picks let more of the pick strumming sound through too me.  Sometimes you want that if the acoustic is being used in a percussive way.  Nylon is mellower to my ears.  Sometimes strumming with your hand is just the right tone.  Same goes with picking. 
 
I personnally, have not had good results using a combination of direct and mic'd.  My Larrivee currently doe not have a pick up, so until I install one, I can't really speak to how it would work with a good solid Rosewood guitar.  The only experience that I have had with direct and mic'd was with an Ovation several years ago.  I was n't getting the results I wanted with the Ovation direct, mic'd or a combo.....hense I replaced it with a really high quality Larrivee.
2014/04/10 18:44:36
clintmartin
Good stuff guys...The Coffee House may never be the same. I'm still waiting for Bapu to give me a ticket! Maybe he'll let me off with a warning.
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