2014/04/06 07:54:22
Grem
Great posts John. Lots of good info. Will have to read about these comps your talking about. Thank you and Larry for the links. I will check them out.

I have been getting back into playing my live rig and loving it.

Recently got some new Mesa pedals that I just love. A "Tone Burst", a "Flux Drive", and a "Grid Slammer." And each one doing what it's name suggest very well in my opinion.

And with some new additions to my amp inventory, I have noticed a new thrill that I haven't felt in a while. So John when you mentioned the "Chugging" effect, that got my attention. Well all of it did actually!

Then mosvalve post those links and having modified a Boss DS-1 to Keely mods specs before, and also modded several other pedals, I think I will try to build one of these Comps you speak of.

I loaned out the modded DS-1 several times and almost didn't get it back! So I am encouraged to try the comp build now that I know more of what I'm after.
2014/04/06 08:11:59
Grem
DP
2014/04/06 09:44:19
michaelhanson
Cool stuff Mosvalve.
2014/04/06 17:28:48
JohnKenn
 
Gentlemen,
 
Wanted to put some links behind the talk. There are so many components out there. Here's a couple of my favorites, all subjective and the like...
 
Two of my favorite vst comps are the clone of Dan Armstrong's Orange Squeeze. Vitamin C by Distorque. Some added controls over the hardware to supplement the floor box, but the dev went diode by diode to retain the original. Chugging is pronounced like the original with long releases. The hardware box was used by the Dire Straits guys and others. Very powerful with a lot of makeup overhead. Check out the other plugs on the page as well.
 
http://distorqueaudio.com/plugins/vitamin-c.html
 
Audio Damage Rough Rider free is another winner. I went with the pro multi band but like the freebie better, much simpler and to the point. Downside to the freebie is that extreme settings, the makeup is not sufficient if you really want to press the output for purposes of driving a fuzz box..
 
http://www.audiodamage.com/downloads/product.php?pid=ADF002
 
Most know the controls already, but a local heavy weight guitarist didn't have a clue about the settings on a vst comp.
 
Attack and release are straightforward. I usually set release to max and play with the attack to get a good initial note definition but not too much popping.
 
Threshold squeezes down the ceiling, so the lower the threshold, more the compression. Ratio is the mix between dry and compressed signal. At extreme low threshold and ratio in direction of the compressed signal, there may not be much left as far as output. This is the makeup control trying to compensate by increasing the output. May be labled as output instead of makeup.
 
Here's where a transparent gain control in the chain can increase the output of a comp if the output in extreme settings is too weak. One gem of a tool is Sonalksis Free G, placed after the comp if needed. Clean, transparent, stereo if needed. Lots of gain. Free. Cool plugin.
 
http://www.sonalksis.com/freeg.htm
 
Before or after the preamp and after one of the noise gates, a good parametric is needed. My favorite is (...uh oh...here comes the “R” word...) REAPER!!! The guys have generously offered an independent suite of some of their vst plugins that run fine in Sonar. ReaEQ is quite incredible if only for the visual layout. Presents the graphic in a way a guitar player needs to see the frequency response (for me anyway). Many features, powerful vst and free.
 
http://www.reaper.fm/reaplugs/
 
Hang onto the ReaFIR plugin in the suite because there is some awesome noise reduction potential claimed. Radical new application. Have to get some idea of if and how it works and if latency is an issue real time. Will get back on this one...
 
Compression trying to get everything at one level. Limiters trying to not let anything go above a set level but not messing with changing volume of signals below the set point.
 
Another ancient plugin everyone loves to hate is right under our mouse. Cakewalk Boost II. This thing would never be used to master anything, and maybe that's where the indignation comes from, but up front after the input and squashed down to the extreme, as good as a lot of the comps for managing a guitar sustain. Noise gate in this case a necessity downstream. Boost II is cool.
 
Really excited about the potential for noise reduction using the Reaper FIR plugin (should work well in Sonar). Was turned on to it by my teenage nephew trying to educate and get me out of the dark ages.
 
A few more beers and will be up to exploring FIR technology for what it is worth. If it does work, represents the near future state of the art in noise reduction. Will try to figure it out and report back. Welcome anyone who has already tread this path and has a clue.
 
John
2014/04/07 15:49:38
Grem
John I went and got the Keeley 4Knob Comp. Waiting for it to come in.
2014/04/07 17:11:09
JohnKenn
Grem,
 
You will not be disappointed. Solid construction, beautiful sound and a lot of thought into quality of the product. That's why so many guys are using it live. Many consider it to be the best floor box compressor available anywhere. The patriarchs of the venerable gray Ross are smiling down from above.
 
What Keeley did was to identify weak diodes in the construction from historic breakdowns and also parts that were substandard or too much tolerance. He realized a need for a couple more controls on top of the original and set the thing up for true bypass in the off position, which the original did not have.
 
Worth every penny.
 
John
 
 
2014/04/07 17:14:17
JohnKenn
Guys,
 
Incomplete note since I ain't had time to try this yet, but ReaFIR looks like could be a winner. Can conjecture that this is a similar algorythm to Adobe Audition. Allows analysis of the noise background and subtracts the profile from the track. Big question for me right now is if this can be applied in real time or is enough of a CPU hog that it can only realistically work post processing.
 
Not trying to push a competing software. Again, the vst plugins are free to use in any DAW of choice.
 
ReaFIR could be a life saver in some situations. Here's a couple YouTube videos that make the case.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOh04O6p6Vw
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knDG8qYkR1A
 
Link to the free vst suite is posted earlier. Would comment that the compressor in the suite is quite good as well. Check out also ReaControlMidi. Some visionary features for keyboard players no designer has thought of yet..
 
Slowly getting a grasp of this and will see if ReaFIR can be applied in real time.
 
John
 
2014/04/07 22:44:42
Grem
Is the ReaFIR anything like what Cool Edit had? Sounds like it.
2014/04/08 23:25:13
JohnKenn
Grem,
 
From a lay guy's perspective, this has to be the same principle, only back then they didn't call it FIR. The secret carried on from Cool Edit into Adobe Audition, and worked extremely well there. They had a high ground advantage on the market in this one area of audio processing.  ProTools, Sonar, Ableton, all the other big guns couldn't pull this off. If you didn't have Audition, all you could do is try to eq out the noise and take everything else with it.
 
I know that the concept of Reaper as a DAW polarizes many and brings out some raw sentiments. Same as if some dude blundered into the Reaper forum and claimed that Sonar was sent by Allah as the planet's best DAW.
 
What can't be pissed away is that this technology in intelligent noise reduction has been offered free by the Reaper devs so that any DAW can benefit from Reaper's advantage. Definitely elevates Sonar's power up a level where Sonar by itself has no capable tools in this realm.
 
Thanks Reaper.
 
John
 
2014/04/09 05:15:08
Grem
I had Cool Edit 96 and the upgraded to 2kpro. When they got bought out, I never took the upgrade path after that. Just wanted too much.

So I kept CE2k running for a long time until just wouldn't run well anymore. Win7 I believe. Then my son was in College so I got Audition student price. And low and behold, there was CE2K. She got fixed up a little, but it was still her! I still use it for any type of wave editing I need to do.

I also have Reaper. And will upgrade when the time comes. It's worth it for sure.

So I got the noise reduction covered!!
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