• Techniques
  • Mixing With Headphones - new idea (for me anyway) (p.2)
2015/06/05 09:04:58
synkrotron
Okay... About the Redline Monitor plug...
 
I registered with 112dB and they sent me a 60 day license for the Redline Monitor VST plug-in.
 
I can only assume that it goes on the master bus as the last effect. At least, that's where I tried it.
 
It's hard to explain. It kind of flattens the mix every so slightly. I tried it on my latest creation and there are a couple of pluck tracks that are panned hard L/R. They still felt that they sat there.
 
But the two lead lines, that are placed around 25% L/R, they seemed to get closer to centre.
 
I suppose that is working as intended, but I'm not sure if it is going to help me in my listening duties. I turned the plug on and off, and you can certainly hear the difference.
 
I can also only assume that, as soon as you are done mixing, you turn this plug-in off, because it must affect the final export. The manual just isn't clear on this...
 
It's a pity there isn't a way of putting this after the master bus. Or, perhaps it's possible to add a bus that's just for "listening," that mirrors the master but is routed directly to the output device. I might have a look into that.
 
cheers
 
andy
2015/06/05 09:29:53
Kamikaze
synkrotron
I'm 55 and I've been listening to most of my music on headphones since my early teens.
 
Just sayin 


Wow, I hope I remember my early teens when I'm 55!
2015/06/05 09:31:03
Karyn
It's a pity there isn't a way of putting this after the master bus. Or, perhaps it's possible to add a bus that's just for "listening," that mirrors the master but is routed directly to the output device. I might have a look into that.

 
You have two choices, depending on your audio interface.
 
If it's only a stereo interface, simply route the Master bus to a new bus which holds any FX you use for monitoring only.  Route this to your main output.  You can export the Master as normal without forgetting to disable any monitoring plugs..
 
If you have 2 or more pairs of outputs.  Create a send on the Master bus to a new bus called Headphones.  Route the Master as normal to the main outputs and your monitors, route the Headphone bus to another pair of outputs and a headphone amp.  Place the Redline Monitor plug in the Headphone bus FX bin.
2015/06/05 09:37:55
Kamikaze
Beyerdynamic DT-990 Pro
 

or
AKG K-612 Pro
 

 
The former have a coiled cable. I have been indecisive between the 2 for ages, so may just let the coiled cable be the winning factor (though they tend to change these details, a friend has the same Audio Technicas as mine, but his have a straight cable). 
2015/06/05 09:44:25
synkrotron
Thanks Karyn, that was pretty painless (I went for option 1 for ease).
 
So... Do I spend £45 on this?
 
In a way, it actually sounds better on the ears, now that I've tried it. Will my final mix will still come out the same? I'm struggling to get my head(phones) around the concept.
 
You are supposed to set up this plug based on what you can hear from your "sound stage," but I don't have one anyway, so I'm leaving the "Center" button at 12 o'clock.
 
I think what I might do next is use this on another version of my current project, turn all the faders down and then start mixing again from scratch...
2015/06/05 10:03:56
synkrotron
Kamikaze
Wow, I hope I remember my early teens when I'm 55!



Same here...
 
 
2015/06/05 10:51:45
bitflipper
The purpose of virtual-monitor devices is to help you achieve a mix via headphones that will translate properly to speakers - not to improve quality in a headphones-only world.
 
Personal opinion, based on pure speculation: virtual-monitor devices are a waste of time and money for most people, the only exception being those who have literally nothing other than headphones to mix on. And who doesn't have at least a car stereo or boombox as secondary references?
 
As others have pointed out above, you'll be mixing in a totally unique environment that nobody else will ever experience.
 
Of course, the above statement can be applied to any mixing environment. Nobody else will ever hear exactly what you hear, whether you're using $5 earbuds or high-end monitors in a well-treated room. Headphones in particular will always present a particularly specific listening experience, because no two models are alike, and even the best of them aren't as flat as good speakers.
 
So how do pro mixers deal with this quandary? They monitor in as neutral an environment as they possibly can. Flat speakers, medium volume, minimal room resonances. 
 
This is the only practical strategy, to shoot for the statistical middle. Sure, nobody will ever hear your music the same way, but all of their various deviations will orbit around your neutral center. And if your mix sounds good on speakers, it will also sound good on headphones. The reverse, however, is not necessarily true.
2015/06/05 11:01:34
Karyn
At least with headphones you can (almost) guarantee the listener will be wearing them on their head, so the biggest variation in sound (moving around the room, or placing speakers in stupid positions) is removed from the equation, leaving only the frequency response to worry about.
By aiming for a good balance and middle ground with your mix you know you'll be getting a reasonable representation with the listener, which can't be said for speakers...
2015/06/05 11:38:37
batsbrew
don't mix with headphones.
 
i cannot say it enough.
 
check with cans, yes....
micro edit with cans, yes...
 
but i rarely, RARELY, hear good mixes that translate on all playback systems done with cans.
 
2015/06/05 11:40:29
Starise
I think the device mentioned is a great way for some to mix with no other option than headphones. I wouldn't trust it to make a perfect representation of the studio monitor sound...but maybe it could be useful to get close.
 
If you only mix on headphones I think you are at a slight disadvantage. Without exception any mix I have have ever made always sounds better on open air monitors, so I try to get it the best in both worlds usually by checking with ARC2 and the associated psuedo representations it has in it to mock other systems. Our ears were never designed to be closed with sound piped in...so this is an unnatural thing that has become popular, and is throws our bi location all off. Without exception I always make a better overall mix if I mix on monitors. If I mix on only  headphones my mixes sound like crap on monitors...I think this is because I have a better idea of the panning and spacial characterisitics of a mix.
 
Don't get me wrong...I don't think headphones are from satan..I use headphones when I don't have anything else. I just prefer open monitoring and I think you hear things in a mix you never would otherwise hear. The interplay between the two sides is more prominent and I'm not convinced there is really any good subsitute for using both.
 
I started asking myself questions early on about what it was that made a mix sound ok on most earbuds and speakers. After mixing awhile I started to get some of it. Bass is a big factor. Bass with some midrange bump and a small Q is good for weak systems. Bass roll off or high pass can help to clean mud from a mix. Panning and reverb selection are important to listeners on speaker systems and not so much for those with earbuds..but you need both.Cheap systems are mid heavy...so too much mid isn't good. Small things like this can help a person to get a good approach before you ever touch the first fader.
 
I would never assume the listener will use this or that. Many people have exposure to good systems. One of my cars has a standard car stereo but another  has an eight speaker bose system in it...so panning can become crucial even for a car stereo listener. 
 
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