• Techniques
  • Suggestions on cost effective multi purpose Preamp/DI for guit/bass/vocals. $100-150? (p.4)
2015/06/11 15:36:12
Beepster
You are doing absolutely nothing wrong with that method because sims are designed to take those signals.
 
The problem is that those Inst ins aren't all created equal AND they are meant to take a plethora of instrument inputs as opposed to just guitars.
 
The ideal input for a guitar is 1 megaohm which is what tlw was alluding to earlier. That's what generally appears on guitar amp inputs but not necessarily on interface inputs or other devices. That's why things get a little hairy for tone chaser like me. For general input you really don't have to worry about it.
 
The other problem for me is I want/need the FULLEST and richest signal going into the interface so when it hits the sim I can get it to truly respond EXACTLY how I need. Again not something most guitarists need to worry about if they are just doing a little this or that but all my stuff pretty much revolves around the guitar. I need the absolutely most useable and flexible input signal possible so if I try to dial in a super clangy/brittle/tubey type tone from a sim it doesn't fall flat. Or if I need a crazy thick and responsive hi gain lead sound it doesn't get all mosquitoey or not sustain properly.
 
Essentially short of dropping thousands on gear (or tens of thousands on gear) just getting that input signal humming a little better will make the sims work a little better which is all I need really.
 
And yeah... you read that right. What I'm currently doing is a massive PITA which is why I'd like a simple device to input straight into the interface or into the mixer and bypass the hassle of screwing with those amps.
 
But that is only part of the equation because I do actually need something for microphone and bass input which both have been far more problematic than my guitar stuff. Just that little extra should make mixing a whole heckuva a lot easier.
 
So really... knowing the type of stuff you have said you are doing I would not worry about these things for even a second. In a few years it may be something you want to look at if you really start getting into live input of guit/bass/vox but just tossing down some tracks to use on your synth based creations? No freaking worries. I'm trying to emulate live recorded band stuff in a one man, low budget, all DI/digital studio. That's why I need to get extra creative about stuff and seek out crap like this.
 
Don't get me wrong. I've been getting some REALLY nice results as it is but it is a LOT more work than I think it needs to be and I STILL think it could be better.
 
Tone Chasing. Not Even Once.
 
lol
2015/06/11 15:41:47
synkrotron
Right'o Beeps... I get you now. Like you say, for what I'm doing, no one would know the difference, at least I don't think so. I really just get my finger out though and get some guitar stuff down so I can get your appraisal 
 
I look forward to you getting this sussed dood, cos I know, for sure, that your write-up will be awesome 
 
good luck with your quest...
 
cheers
 
andy
2015/06/11 15:48:35
batsbrew
if you are serious about reamping, then go here:
 
http://www.reamp.com/
 
2015/06/11 16:41:37
Beepster
Cool. I'm not actually that serious about reamping YET but will be at some point. Right now it's all about getting an easy to set up but sonically optimal input signal. I can twist it up in the box from there. The reamping thing is quite awesome though and I certainly need it in my bag of tricks. It could really help some older recordings I've got laying around AND since I'm currently doing everything DI/cleanish it could mean if I ever acquire much nicer gear the stuff I'm doing now could get bumped up a quality notch as well.
2015/06/12 11:07:08
Cactus Music
I think you might find that the perfect pre amp for Vocals, Bass and Guitar is asking for 2 different things in one. I mentioned the Joe Meek because it works excellent for both Vocals and Bass. It also works for acoustic guitar. Those are sources that benefit from a certain type of circuitry. 
But I have not tried my electric guitar thru it for the simple reason that's one sound I nailed down 25 years ago. And the answer for me will always be a tube amp and SM 57 on the speaker. Nothing else will do it for me. And that's what it comes down to... YOUR tone and guitar style.  
 
I've tried all other systems over the years and many different types of amps. Now a clean guitar sound is a little easier, but then we each gravitate towards different ends of the overdrive/ distortion spectrum. If I could simplify I'd say Overdrive is that tube, bluesy fat tone, and distortion is more to the buzzsaw edgy fuzz tone. 
Pedal boards , Modeling and Sims have one thing in common- they can do distortion but never come close to the tube overdrive sound. Some stomp boxes these day are getting closer but the purest will always want a tube and a speaker cone involved.
 
 
I love my new Blackstar amp because I can record a lot of great tones directly with the master volume down low ( or off ) but I can only play the blues through my Fender. And it has to be loud to work. The Blackstar does most every tone imaginable but it misses the mark like all sims on that fat overdrive sustaining blues tone. 
 
2015/06/12 11:57:09
Beepster
I've actually taken great interest in that Joe Meek unit and thanks for pointing me to that brand. I would like to try something like that but although it may do what I need it's got two things going against it at the moment for my immediate purposes. One is it's solid state and I really think I need a tube somewhere in my setup and the second is the cost. Just a little more than I can drop and it may be hard to find where I am (however you seem to be in Canada so perhaps not all that hard).
 
I've planned all sorts of wacky stuff to get some tubeyness going like snagging a small Fender Champ or some such thing that I can then bend and twist to my will with other effects to get my sound but I've completely given up any type of audible recording in this apartment. It simply won't fly in here (and I am super pissed because I asked about the soundproofing about a million freaking times... turns out it is non existent contrary to what I was told). I do sooooo many takes I would drive my neighbors nuts with even a short session.
 
I also need extreme variety so I rely on sims which I'm really getting good at tweaking. However they are very signal hungry and lack that one crucial component... a sizzling tube. They seem to have the models covered, the IR and mic stuff covered, the room stuff covered, etc but they simply cannot do tube stuff or work with a substandard signal. After this past year of playing with my outboard gear I have gotten MUCH better response but I really think just running crap though an actual tube is going to push things over the top. It could also fail miserably and I know it'll never be like micing the real deal in a real room but gotta work with what you got, right?
 
The way I figure it this is my "struggle" period. If I can figure out how to produce top quality results with my meager gear then when (and if... a big if) I get my hands on real gear or plop my arse down in a real studio again it'll be freaking gravy.
 
I'm just sooooo happy technology has gotten to the point that dudes like me can pull this crap off. Even 5 years ago I never would have attempted all this "in the box" chicannery. The drum samplers, guit sims and studio gear emus have gotten so good and affordable though that good things can be done. Very exciting and for me liberating.
 
Mostly though it seems I'm starting to go down the session artist/guitarist path so I want to make absolutely sure the best quality dry signals are being delivered. No complaints so far but it is a bloody pain getting that quality with this archaic solid state gear.
 
Anyway... I was actually just taking a break from such a session otherwise I'd be replying to everyone. Sorry about that guys. Every post in this thread has been very interesting and helpful and I thank you for that.
 
 
Cheers.
2015/06/12 12:06:25
Beepster
Oh and I really need to get some better use out of my mics anyway for voiceover work (I have some video schemes planned and may see if I can lend my somewhat unique voice to film freaks) and vocals. I only have a couple condensers and they ain't great but I do have some old standard dynamic mics (like 58s and some more curious ones with interesting characteristics). I think something like this can make my less than optimal collection of mics MUCH more useful. Of course DI bass is a major concern too. I have heard some demos of what the ART units can do for a bass and it certainly does seem to provide a much better starting point to mix with.
 
2015/06/12 12:26:58
Brando
Finding one's not hard - price however is well above your target http:// www.amazon.ca/Joemeek-ThreeQ-Rack-Channel-Strip/dp/B0002E2WAU
2015/06/12 12:27:11
batsbrew
there is nothing that can improve the quality of your captures better,
than a good mic.
 
2015/06/12 13:13:18
Beepster
Brando
Finding one's not hard - price however is well above your target http:// www.amazon.ca/Joemeek-ThreeQ-Rack-Channel-Strip/dp/B0002E2WAU




Indeed and it's the story of my "studio" life so I have to get creative and make VERY calculated purchases... thus the thread. Really my current path is to increase the quality of my input as much as possible in increments as finances allow so I can rely less and less on the "in the box" stuff and/or make the "itb" stuff work better. Of course knowing as much as I can about HOW to use everything properly is a huge part of the equation too which is why I'm constantly on here day in and day out harassing you guys. ;-)
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