I am finding a distinct rift between sandboxing ideas (song composition) and tracking, which is requiring two different project files for me thus far. Matrix View has been helpful for song sections by column, but I have run into hurdles with MIDI that has been rather frustrating. The song section part has become indispensable for sandboxing, so I continue to path down the MV route (for audio), but then think I may be recreating the wheel, as it were.
 
I am curious what methods others are using for fleshing out to give me a new perspective on work flows others default to.
 
 
 

A good question, and I'll see where this leads...
 
I'm still doing stuff they way I always have, for many years now, and I've never bothered to try new ideas and techniques. Which is probably why I have a ton of eight/sixteen bar projects still not progressed any further.
 
Sorry I can't help... I more in need of help myself 

I used to have a similar problem. I had lots of short...one verse or one chorus song ideas that were never finished. I used a note pad, then started using Cakewalk and ended up with a similar number of unfinished ideas.  There was no way to get and try new ideas with ease. It was easier to start again and so I ended up not writing many tunes but starting lots of ideas.
 
That changed when I found Band in A Box. Once you understand what it is and how it works, it's the best songwriting tool I have found. It's so easy to edit, paste, delete and swap things in and out.... change keys in seconds... try that one in a DAW with audio tracks, change tempo, change styles, change instruments....all in a matter of a few seconds.   Wanna add a prechorus? Insert 8 measures. The cool thing is the BB files are rather small and if you don't like the song idea, you can shelve it in a folder and not worry that you're eating up hard drive space with junk. 
 
Of course, BiaB excels with some kinds of music and not so much with others. If you write EDM and trailer music, don't bother. If you write country, rock, and other similar styles, it's worth a look.
 
I have been using it for practically 100% of my songwriting since 2009 when I first bought it. Listen to the music on my website page link.....most of the songs on there are BB compositions. It's a great songwriting tool, not to mention what you can do with it's companion program....real band.

I've heard of Band in a Box, for sure, and I knew someone once, many years ago that used it, but I was already using Cakewalk by then and didn't fancy learning another new "toy." I couldn't remember what it was like so I've just googled it and pulled up a couple of videos.
 
That looks like a really handy tool. I understand where you're coming from regarding not being so useful for some kinds of music, but this would help me to mess around with chord progressions and also a backing for guitar practise.
 
The thing that puts me off is, it ain't cheap... especially once you get into the additional content (realtracks and what have you).
 
A tough call really, because I am sure that it would help me, even though I produce electronic music...
 
Thanks for pointing that out 

Thank you for that input. I took a look at a couple of those videos as well, and the ability to dynamically adjust chords is rather slick on how it is implemented. I didn't see a demo for it though (may not be one), but that workflow seems a lot quicker and more to the point than what I have been doing. One issue I am having with Matrix View is that "MIDI Learn" seems to only come from a hardware controller; if this could be linked to a VST MIDI out/through I might be set (I cannot get this to work... but AD2 accepts "MIDI Learn" from an enabled MIDI output on a VST).
 
@synkrotron, they offer crossgrades which are $10 more than people who upgraded from 2014 ($20 more if it is a version with a disk drive). I only saw these on the pgmusic site itself (the crossgrades are the same as upgrades from 2013). Their version of crossgrade is a Mac <-> PC version, not a competitive crossgrade (the original info was misleading).

BIAB is a great tool for hearing what you have written realized in more of a band/combo format. It can be great inspiration for understanding what is missing and what might work. I often will take my BIAB files and dump them right into Sonar, where you can edit to our heart's content. My favorite way of working with it is to set up my basic ideas and rehearse with it, especially when I'm writing a bass part or keyboard part(neither of which is my primary instrument.) You have to know when to get it into Sonar though, because trying to manipulate styles can be a little tedious in BIAB. 
Bottom line though, is BIAB is insanely simple for what results you get, and usually the parts are fairly well arranged. It will not write a song for you, you still have to provide intelligent chords for it, but it's a great way of testing a bunch of chords and see which work and have a "band" follow right along with it.

BIAB combined with ToonTracks EZKeys (and the multitude of MIDI packs for it) are heaven sent for those lacking a cadre of musicians.
 
I've used both with a fair degree of success in more than a few songs now. 

When I've done this in the past I kind of do it in such a rudimentary and ridiculous way that it might be laughable.
 
Want I do is I'll drag in some drum loops or tap out some drum loops on my padKontrol that fit some of the rudimentary riffs I want to use in the song. I try to make sure that those drum parts aren't too hyper specific so they'll fit over anything I might add on (and if I go too far astray I'll find more appropriate loops or create more of my own). Those all get turned into short Groove Clips and I drag them way down the timeline so they are out of my working area (so I may start off thinking the song will be 3-4 minutes and then drag them to the 5-6 minute mark of the MIDI drum track).
 
I may also do that with some bass stuff but I usually do the guitar first and really adding a third track just makes things more complicated. However a bassline/riff clip can be linked to specific guit clips for easy editing/structuring.
 
So as I write the riffs I simply copy/drag the appropriate loop to the appropriate spot. Because they are "Grooves" I can drag them out/in/edit them as far as the riff need.
 
In the guit track I'll record little riff chunks into the lanes then trim them to beat/measure markers.
 
Now a I can just drag the riffs and beats around until I get a structure going and insert new/distinct riffs or tags or whatever as needed. All my drum parts are off screen and if I've got a riff that I kind of want to use but it ain't fitting in properly I can drag that off screen. Actually I could copy/drag all the riff clips off screen underneath the drum clips they work with to do easy Ctrl + Select + Drag of sections but I haven't really needed to do that yet.
 
So really the arse end of my project ends up a clip/beat/riff depository and I write into and build up the song on the timeline before that. If the song starts getting too long I can just Lasso all the source clips and drag them further down the timeline to get them out of the way.
 
Obviously the more tracks/instruments invloved this process gets more complex but I have always preferred writing with just the guitar and drums first to get the structure and then wrapping/writing everything around that.
 
We really should have that "Block" style editing I keep hearing so much about in other DAWs though the seems to essentially allow you to segment a project vertically into columns that you can select and move/copy/etc and hopefully deselect elements from. That to me would be an excellent songwriting workflow.
 
Cheers.

mettelus
@synkrotron, they offer crossgrades which are $10 more than people who upgraded from 2014 ($20 more if it is a version with a disk drive). I only saw these on the pgmusic site itself (the crossgrades are the same as upgrades from 2013).

Thanks for pointing that out mettelus.
 
I've had a look at that and it's $79 for a "crossgrade."
 
I just don't understand how the crossgrade works...

I am glad you asked that, since every company has different renditions of what "crossgrade" means! I actually used their LIVE chat feature for 2 questions:

1. Demo - Nope.
2. Crossgrade (to them) - users switching between Mac <-> PC versions. This does not include a competitive crossgrade.