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2018/02/07 23:35:48
sharke
Oh and another tidbit - Noel has said in the past that previous problems with plugins losing their settings have been due to their implementation of ARA. He didn't say exactly what, but I suspect it has something to do with the timeline and the transport, and mix in a bit of controller/MIDI data oddity. 
 
2018/02/07 23:36:02
Beepster
Ya. I've had issues but not like that.
 
Sometimes weird crap goes down and I just restart the program.
 
Most of my issues come from jamming a project with too many takes/comp edits without cleaning them up and/or too many tracks with too many plugins.
 
Other programs seem to handle that type of thing better but really... I try to KIS(S*) these days. Seems to work out better in the long run.
 
*IR teh stoopid one in this example... must control the inner spazz puppy
2018/02/07 23:37:14
Beepster
This thread has moved to fast for me. I think I'm gonna shutupandplaymytuna.
 
2018/02/08 00:50:35
sharke
Beepster
Ya. I've had issues but not like that.
 
Sometimes weird crap goes down and I just restart the program.
 
Most of my issues come from jamming a project with too many takes/comp edits without cleaning them up and/or too many tracks with too many plugins.
 
Other programs seem to handle that type of thing better but really... I try to KIS(S*) these days. Seems to work out better in the long run.
 
*IR teh stoopid one in this example... must control the inner spazz puppy




I wish I could do that. I wouldn't mind restarting at all if it meant the weirdness would end. Unfortunately for me it happens as soon as the project loads 
2018/02/08 01:28:56
Beepster
sharke
Beepster
Ya. I've had issues but not like that.
 
Sometimes weird crap goes down and I just restart the program.
 
Most of my issues come from jamming a project with too many takes/comp edits without cleaning them up and/or too many tracks with too many plugins.
 
Other programs seem to handle that type of thing better but really... I try to KIS(S*) these days. Seems to work out better in the long run.
 
*IR teh stoopid one in this example... must control the inner spazz puppy




I wish I could do that. I wouldn't mind restarting at all if it meant the weirdness would end. Unfortunately for me it happens as soon as the project loads 




Sounds like you got some toxic shiz loading, sharke-o. Again I would normally just revert back to a stable project but in your case (based on minimal info and assuming reverting would lose too much work) I would attempt a Safe Mode load of SONAR and do the ole dance of "find the crashy plug that seems to hate SONAR".
 
Then... because I'm obstinate about how I like things to sound... I would concoct an evil scheme to preserve whatever the crap it was I did to strangle choke my project... just to be an arsehole... to that specific plug... that was being an arsehole to me.
 
/stable genius
 
2018/02/08 02:36:44
msmcleod
sharke
Oh and another tidbit - Noel has said in the past that previous problems with plugins losing their settings have been due to their implementation of ARA. He didn't say exactly what, but I suspect it has something to do with the timeline and the transport, and mix in a bit of controller/MIDI data oddity.



Just brainstorming here...
 
Does the settings-lost issue only apply to vst3 plugins, or is it across the board? I've had to ditch a few vst3's in favour of vst2's because they don't behave.
 
Also, your MIDI interface - have you tried using a different one (I'm wondering if there's a driver issue maybe causing some issue somewhere, if indeed it has a proprietry driver rather than a standard class compliant one).
 
M.
2018/02/08 03:00:54
sharke
Beepster
sharke
Beepster
Ya. I've had issues but not like that.
 
Sometimes weird crap goes down and I just restart the program.
 
Most of my issues come from jamming a project with too many takes/comp edits without cleaning them up and/or too many tracks with too many plugins.
 
Other programs seem to handle that type of thing better but really... I try to KIS(S*) these days. Seems to work out better in the long run.
 
*IR teh stoopid one in this example... must control the inner spazz puppy




I wish I could do that. I wouldn't mind restarting at all if it meant the weirdness would end. Unfortunately for me it happens as soon as the project loads 




Sounds like you got some toxic shiz loading, sharke-o. Again I would normally just revert back to a stable project but in your case (based on minimal info and assuming reverting would lose too much work) I would attempt a Safe Mode load of SONAR and do the ole dance of "find the crashy plug that seems to hate SONAR".
 
Then... because I'm obstinate about how I like things to sound... I would concoct an evil scheme to preserve whatever the crap it was I did to strangle choke my project... just to be an arsehole... to that specific plug... that was being an arsehole to me.
 
/stable genius
 




It has nothing to do with plugins crashing or stability though (although I do have stability problems in large projects - Sonar sometimes crashes while looping sections). I would estimate there is probably 200+ plugins in this project, so even if the problem was a plugin crashing, doing the whole safe mode thing would be a gargantuan task. 
2018/02/08 03:03:22
sharke
msmcleod
sharke
Oh and another tidbit - Noel has said in the past that previous problems with plugins losing their settings have been due to their implementation of ARA. He didn't say exactly what, but I suspect it has something to do with the timeline and the transport, and mix in a bit of controller/MIDI data oddity.



Just brainstorming here...
 
Does the settings-lost issue only apply to vst3 plugins, or is it across the board? I've had to ditch a few vst3's in favour of vst2's because they don't behave.
 
Also, your MIDI interface - have you tried using a different one (I'm wondering if there's a driver issue maybe causing some issue somewhere, if indeed it has a proprietry driver rather than a standard class compliant one).
 
M.




It's mainly VST3 plugins I think although I've seen VST2 synths lose their settings as well (as well as some of my NI plugins which I think are VST2). 
 
By MIDI interface do you mean my controller? I actually disconnected that in case it was causing problems but it didn't help. 
 
Also, if what Noel said was true about ARA being the source of these problems,  I guess interfaces wouldn't matter. 
2018/02/08 03:20:32
Beepster
All I can say then is... these are the risks we run whilst ramming our kit with all sorts of whatever on large amounts of tracks.
 
Then there does unfortunately come a point where things start saying "nope".
 
Sadly that point does seem to come far sooner in SONAR than it does in (some) other platforms. That's why I use it with care.
2018/02/08 04:24:57
sharke
Yeah it's definitely a very fragile platform, and it has some serious issues that manifest in large and/or long running projects that have been worked on across successive updates. I've definitely pissed some people off by talking openly about these problems, primarily because they never experienced them in their projects and didn't like anyone tainting their view of Sonar as the "best DAW in history, ever." 
 
I honestly think it's probably a great DAW for working with traditional band recording setups, and I get the feeling that's what the vast majority of users do with it. Someone asked the question on the Facebook group a while ago, "how many tracks do you typically have in a session," and a lot of people answered. The average seemed to be in the region of 10-30 tracks with most people saying "just the usual stuff - guitar, drums, bass, maybe a drum VST and a synth pad." Sonar handles that pretty well. Here's one of mine zoomed out, as you can see there is a lot of stuff going on (this is with all of the MIDI tracks hidden except a handful), about 20 minutes worth of timeline.
 

 
I've noticed as a rule of thumb that when I start to get irritated by the length of time it takes Sonar to save a project (i.e. there's no quick CTRL-S and continue with what you were doing, you have to sit back and wait a while), that's about when the project starts to become troublesome. It's not exactly as if it's taxing my CPU too much either - I mean each of these tracks have upwards of 5 or 6 plugins on them (maybe more), but my CPU meters are showing just over 50% (mind you, with maximum buffer size). But really, in the realm of electronica, this kind of project size is typical. It's not as if all the tracks are playing at once, there's just a lot of sounds throughout the project. I'm convinced that it's when you have a lot of MIDI and automation flying around, that's when Sonar starts getting confused and sending signals where they shouldn't be. 
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