• Coffee House
  • why gibson is less popular then fender these days? (p.16)
2013/11/30 13:52:08
michaelhanson
Well Spacey, that is exactly why I am leaning towards having the violin custom built for my daughter. It would be to her specs and a much higher quality. I plan on this being the last violin that I buy for her and want one that will last through high school and possibly college. My wife is actually the one second guessing about resale value.

Back to the OP, why is Fender more popular than Gibson. Are they? Does any one have any sales figures to back that up? I think we would need to combine Epiphone and Gibson sales to have a fair comparison with Fenders. I'm not exactly sure how one defines more popular. Just for grins I did a quick look at "Likes" on Facebook and Gibson had 6.2 million likes and Fender had only 1.6 million. Maybe people who play Fenders don't like Facebook.

I'm more of the original opinion that I had....in that it doesn't matter. Both excellent instruments, different tools for different sounds and I have owned and loved both. Play what you like best. Vanilla and chocolate ice cream.
2013/11/30 14:04:29
spacealf
Then why read the thread? (Spacey)
In the case of the violin, I would not get the best one, I would say well, I will buy a pretty good one, but we all will see if you really stick with it. Unless it has re-sale value in the future and will be worth more, then a pretty good one may do the trick. It is nice to be promising but until you actually get into the heat of the battle meaning symphonies instead of just local perhaps and orchestras and perhaps play that music for any number of years, being in an orchestra or a symphony even a great one is not the same as being the artist standing up front being the virtuoist playing. And only so much time can be spent on anything especially when college may be coming and well, will it all continue in that way. (I know somewhat since I played in both a junior symphony and a senior symphony orchestra during high school at the same time. Well, the boring afternoon Saturday rehearsal practices got to me as I looked a the sunshine out the window of the place because I was a percussionist and being outside instead of being bored inside while listening to rehearsal again and again and again while waiting to play one cymbal crash - Got To Me! I rather play football with friends and no padding and be tackled, anything except those boring tedious hours I still remember to this day. Fine if it fits someone else, but look man, I was in high-school, there are a million things to do other then make a small sum of money doing nothing most of one of the only days off from school. Get real!) I was a kid!
 
I would think the teacher has some personal feeling about creating a student who makes him/her famous as she took lessons from me. I would be careful about all of that, and the way the child may be used only later to find it all failed down. What is that line in Stargate? Still failing upwards?
 
Who took the poll about which company is more popular or not? I have not seen a link or anythings or anything except some perhaps personal feelings that Fender is more popular than Gibson? Perhaps it is Country Music! I turned on the radio today and took about 10 minutes of it - Drink your beer, chew tobacco, chew tobacco, chew tobacco, spit while praying to the man upstairs. The song before was about loving or liking Christmas Cookies or something, and to tell you the truth, I had to turn off the radio, period.
 
What exact music are you talking about? The fact that musicians are not making as much as they once did, the fact that they may play different instruments in this day and age of other guitar makers, the fact and possibility of the record companies only promoting single artists and certain female singers, or the whole probable ball of bull that inherits this Country lately. And perhaps it depends on what music you are listening too also.
 
The fact that if you read Sweetwater, 60% off on a PRS guitar there, while Gibsons where only 30% off, or the fact that they are just trying to sell the guitars or it's Black Friday week, weekday, weekend, whatever.
 
People buy what they think they can afford most of the time except maybe the ones that run the reality or show or lean towards incompetence like some of the high-ups wherever that is, the fact that some people complain about quality but again it is just another personal feeling, again and again and again.
 
Well, ya, I just bought a Gibson, and no I have not tried a Fender ever, I did once at the jam, just don't fit my clubby keyboard hands like the beef of the neck of my new Gibson does which I am still lowering the action on because it is pleked so I can plink and plunk and puck and tuck and plek, plank plonk, and whatever.

 
Can make up an entire song about any of it I suppose, so back to trying to play guitar. Just don't look for me to be famous.
 
 
2013/11/30 14:40:15
spacealf
And I would not knock the "fiddle" at least in my humble opinion!
 
2013/11/30 14:47:46
spacey
spacealf
Then why read the thread? (Spacey)
 
 Who took the poll about which company is more popular or not? I have not seen a link or anythings or anything except some perhaps personal feelings that Fender is more popular than Gibson? Perhaps it is Country Music! I turned on the radio today and took about 10 minutes of it - Drink your beer, chew tobacco, chew tobacco, chew tobacco, spit while praying to the man upstairs.
 



That's easy...for classic tid-bits like that. Things I would never imagine.
 
2013/11/30 17:04:25
Rain
spacey
 


LOL....then why did you compare a name brand to throwing money away?
I'm glad I'm not a friend of yours that builds guitars and finds out you've been buying Epiphones.
 



WTF?!!! Talk about completely misinterpreting what I wrote. I'm usually always the first to admit that maybe it's my relatively poor english that's to blame but in this case, I am sure it is not. 
 
Did you really read what I wrote? My whole message said the exact opposite and was an argument IN FAVOR of brand name (just not OVER custom). There wasn't even the slightest touch of irony to mislead someone in there. 
 
As for Epiphones and that low blow you felt necessary to give for whatever reason: I buy them because they're relatively decent instrument which I can afford. I also own a US Fender strat and, as you've read, recently acquired a little Gibson SGJ.
 
I don't consider myself the next Jimmy Page and my wife has had to cover all the expenses for the both of us for the last 2 years because I cannot legally work from outside our home country. My Epiphones sound okay, stay in tune and play just fine. That's as much as I need.
 
But more than anything, my head is not so far up my arse that I'd think I deserve or need a $2500 guitar. Which does not prevent me from seeing the arguments in favour of buying one. Because this isn't about ME.
 
As for my guitar building friends, one of them actually owns a few Epiphones amongst the PRS, Gibson, ESP and all the rest. And my own luthier did not frown when I asked him to adjust the Les Pauls.
2013/11/30 17:58:42
spacealf
We'll have to talk about the density also. The density of the wood, whatever, the air of density of this discussion.


http://www.differencebetw...-rosewood-and-mahogany

"However, due to the high demand for mahogany, has led to overlogging of the trees. This has in turn led to CITES listing Swietenia mahagoni on its endangered list, while S. macrophylla King, and S. humilis Zucc are listed as vulnerable."
 
 
The density of a Gibson vs. a Fender with the wood used to make the guitar.
Density!
It's that important.
 
Asian Mahogany vs. Central America or even South American Mahogany.
The Rosewood used in the guitars and last but not least, the maple used in a guitar.
 
Oh, wait, I think Fender uses different wood in their guitars, something like Adler or Basswood or Maple or something like that.
 
Density, as long as the head perhaps is not Dense!
 
2013/11/30 19:02:13
spacey
Rain
spacey
 


LOL....then why did you compare a name brand to throwing money away?
I'm glad I'm not a friend of yours that builds guitars and finds out you've been buying Epiphones.
 



WTF?!!! Talk about completely misinterpreting what I wrote. I'm usually always the first to admit that maybe it's my relatively poor english that's to blame but in this case, I am sure it is not. 
 
Did you really read what I wrote? My whole message said the exact opposite and was an argument IN FAVOR of brand name (just not OVER custom). There wasn't even the slightest touch of irony to mislead someone in there. 
 

 
Yes I read it. Maybe you had another reason for stating "throwing money away"...the way I understood it was funny. Sorry. Ok it's not funny any more so I don't know what "throwing money away" means.
 
Rain
 
As for Epiphones and that low blow you felt necessary to give for whatever reason: I buy them because they're relatively decent instrument which I can afford. I also own a US Fender strat and, as you've read, recently acquired a little Gibson SGJ.
 

 

I didn't low blow Epiphones.
You stated that you had a half dozen friends that could build guitars for a few hundred dollars...
I thought if you were my friend and you choose to buy Epiphones rather than have me build you one I'd  not be feeling good about the whole thing.
Neither here or there though because I'm not one of them and maybe they don't care for all I know. But I stand by what I said; I'm glad I'm not a friend of yours that builds guitars for a few hundred dollars and finds out you've been buying Epiphones.
If you don't like what I think...nothing I can do about that.
 
 
2013/11/30 19:28:25
Rain
spacey
 
 Yes I read it. Maybe you had another reason for stating "throwing money away"...the way I understood it was funny. Sorry. Ok it's not funny any more so I don't know what "throwing money away" means.
 
 

 
So I'll quote myself - "paying for brand name is not as pointless as people make it seem" and "But there's more to "paying for the name" than just throwing away your money".
 
I don't know how else I could word it otherwise.
I did not say paying for brand name IS throwing money away.
I don't know how it could be interpreted as the opposite.
 
spacey
 

I didn't low blow Epiphones.
You stated that you had a half dozen friends that could build guitars for a few hundred dollars...
I thought if you were my friend and you choose to buy Epiphones rather than have me build you one I'd  not be feeling good about the whole thing.
Neither here or there though because I'm not one of them and maybe they don't care for all I know. But I stand by what I said; I'm glad I'm not a friend of yours that builds guitars for a few hundred dollars and finds out you've been buying Epiphones.
If you don't like what I think...nothing I can do about that.
 

Understood that this wasn't low blowing Epiphone. In fact I didn't take it as such - I haven't reached the point of fanboydom where I actually identify with manufacturers.
 
I took it as a personal critic, questioning my decision to buy an Epiphone instead of buying a custom made instrument made by a friend (the critic of Epiphone was implicit I guess, but it didn't bother me). None of that is all that important, but I felt if a statement was to be made, I could at least counter it. 
 
If I pick an Epiphone Les Paul over a custom made Telecaster, it's most likely because I want a Les Paul, not a Tele. At this point I am not really interested in a Telecaster. Neither was I interested in a more custom design.
 
If I bought a cheap tele copy, or if I was to buy a Squier or something, it's very likely that at least one of them would call me on it and suggest building one for me instead. In fact, I know for certain that if I wanted a Tele, I'd ring my old pal James and custom order one because he makes the coolest of all teles I've seen.
 
Plus, as I said, those guys are friends - not salesmen trying to earn a living at my expense. By that logic, they should be at each other's throat over who's going to build me a guitar...
2013/11/30 20:07:48
spacey
Rain...it's real simple to me...
If I had a choice between a custom made guitar that a friend of mine could build or an Epiphone
and the money for either is but a few hundred dollars then I would choose the custom made.
You were the one that mentioned you had those options.
Now I'm sorry I pointed out my choice.
2013/11/30 20:25:44
Rain
spacey
Rain...it's real simple to me...
If I had a choice between a custom made guitar that a friend of mine could build or an Epiphone
and the money for either is but a few hundred dollars then I would choose the custom made.
You were the one that mentioned you had those options.
Now I'm sorry I did.




You don't have to be sorry, man. Seriously. 
 
Let me phrase it another way - and let that not offend anyone who like them or build them as this is only my opinion: I don't like Telecasters.
 
Most of them I really don't like.
 
A custom tele to me is a potentially high quality version of a bad guitar design.
 
I hate that bridge.
I don't like that metal plate underneath the knobs.
I don't like that thin headstock which looks crippled - aesthetically it's totally unbalanced.
That body shape... To me, it's a clumsy caricature of a Les Paul and/or other classic hollow body designs. 
I don't like "twang".
 
I've come to dislike big pickguards. I just want to see the wood, not hide it under a chunk of plastic. That's valid for Stratocasters, SGs and Teles or any other.
 
I don't like how trendy they've become when every one got tired of strats. When rock musicians became boring and depressed, cut their hair and started dressing like the guy working the pomp at the gas station, the market for Telecaster seemed to sky rocket. 
 
Telecaster and Orange amps...
 
Once in a while I see one that's almost it, but, nah...  
 
That being said, I can also tell that a telecaster is nice - AS a telecaster. 
 
These are a few of the reasons why I'll pick a Epiphone Les Paul ANYTIME before a Telecaster - admitting that I can test it before.
 
As for the rest, you're as free as anyone to express your thoughts here. And you know a lot more about building guitars than I ever will. But I believe I am also able to pick the right guitar for me.
 
And it's all become a moot point since I got the SGJ, anyway. ;)
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