You guys tried the non-standard Epiphone Les Paul? As I said, the pick ups on my standard are not very good (though they can actually be useful for high gain stuff), but the ones on my Traditional are already way better. Those ProBuckers really aren't bad.
 
The weird thing for me is that I've always considered that it had to be a Strat or a Les Paul. The Tele and the SG were like the ugly cousins (though the SG not half as bad as the Tele).
 
I still think the Les Paul is the most gorgeous electric guitar ever created, I love how balanced it feels, and that sound is to die for.
 
The strat I have developed mixed feelings about. I've come to see it as a plank w/ lots of plastic on it. My American strat looks like a cheaper instrument than my black Epiphone. I hate where Fender put the knobs. I'm not all that comfortable with the bridge. But it's an amazing instrument if it works for you, ergonomically.
 
And I end up playing that SG - in which I'm starting to see a different kind of beauty. Its tone has a lot of what I like about the Les Paul, but there's also something a bit nastier about it - not unpleasant at all. In terms of playability it gives me the best of both worlds and then some.
 
In regards to strats again, what puzzles me  is where the difference lies between a $400 made in Mexico instrument and a $1000 US one and a $4000 custom. I just don't see how such a simple design can be made all that different. 
 
I can see the rough edges on my Epiphone, I can see the difference in the binding, the inlays, I've seen Epiphones that had tuners questionably aligned, rough joints. These are visual cues that can help you differentiate an Epiphone from a Gibson pretty much on the spot. Then there's wood quality, there's electronics, etc...
 
Similarly, the Les Paul Junior and the Les Paul Studio both offer stripped down versions of the Les Paul. No binding, simpler design...
 
By design, the Les Paul has LOTS of little things which can give it away and it's relatively easy to spot the difference between a $400 instrument, a $900 one and a $2000 (whether those price are justified isn't part of the question right now).
 
For strats, as long as you get one with the standard thickness, your only visual cues often are the number of screws that hold the pickguard and the type of bridge. I could take the guts of my MIA strat, put them in a MIM instrument and I doubt there's be much difference. Maybe the tuners. But a Strat is a Strat. You can mix and match them - some of the most iconic strats like Clapton's Blackie were exemples of such "monsters".
 
That's one part someone like Spacey could enlighten me about quite a bit. How can a practically ready-made guitar like strat or a tele be made into such a "Deluxe" instrument, beside the electronics... Furthermore, considering how simple it seems to put one together yourself* (unlike a Les Paul), there really isn't much to a MIA strat or Tele beside the brand name, or is there?
 
 
* Simple for anyone but yours truly. I wouldn't even dream of trying - I'm sure power tools and soldering irons would be made illegal in Nevada as a result if I even tried...

I'm guessing the MIM is cheaper 'cause it's made in Mexico and that's about it.
 
And, I must admit:  I've never had a Tele because...  I've always thought it was butt fugly!   Sorry, but that's my opinion of it.  What ya gonna do? 
 
Now if you really want a quality LP-like instrument for a very attractive price you should check out the Agile and Tokai guitar lines!  (Really.)

When I think of Gibson and Fender I don't think of popularity I think of two innovating guitar manufacturers that have
secured their place in history by making excellent guitars.
 
I know that both companies will build whatever the player wants or offer a model for whatever the player can afford or want to spend.
I know that both can build guitars better today than they ever could and both have made it very easy for a player to have them custom
build a guitar. It's a marketplace...money talks and BS walks. Simple.
 
I also know that times have changed for them in the marketplace as there are many quality guitar manufacturers and many luthiers. Even so, nobody can
erase their heritage or replace it. I can't imagine how bad they would have to start building guitars to kill their popularity...and for one to even think and believe that
one is more popular than the other or to think that a specific model is for a specific genre of music is just to far out for me to take serious and makes me wonder if there are
really people that believe that. (unfortunately I believe there is)
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

craigb
I'm guessing the MIM is cheaper 'cause it's made in Mexico and that's about it.
 
And, I must admit:  I've never had a Tele because...  I've always thought it was butt fugly!   Sorry, but that's my opinion of it.  What ya gonna do? 

Agree with you? :P
 
Ol Pal pointed me to those recently, which I think are some of the better looking tele models:

I still don't like the bridge, I still don't like that plate under the knobs. I am not a fan of strings through... The headstock is the best take on an alternative Tele headstock I have seen. As good as it gets, short of a totally custom.
 
 
That being said, the more I play the SG, the more I get the impression that that's the model I should have been playing all along.
 
If I were to buy a different model or maybe to have one built, these days, I find there's something interesting about this one:

 
Though I can't understand why Fender insist on placing volume control in the way. And that switch could be located elsewhere.
 
And I'm sure if I start messing around with ideas for modes, I'll end up with another Les Paul or a SG.
 
And the MusicMan Armada is one which really caught my eye (though I don't like the inlays):

 

I'm with you guys on Tele's, they just visually don't do a lot for me.

The main difference in a non American made Fender is the cost of labor. American made Fenders have Fenders high end pickups and electronics. They also have a much better bridge in them, one that gets better resonance. Craig, the picture of your Strat has the upgraded bridge and Fender Noisless pickups. The Noiseless are my favorite Fender single coils and I had them on my American Deluxe along with the heavier upgraded bridge. Smaller differences seem to be in the way they paint them. At least in the specs sheets they mention a different process that improves body resonance.

And I agree with you Rain, for me the LP shape has always been the most appealing to me. It instantly caught my eye. As a young guy, I had to have one. Bought my first Standard LP in 1982. I do think it is silly to associate different guitars with different genre's of music. However, a LP and a Marshall, the tone to me has always been the classic sound of rock. The LP has just a little more bite and a little more sustain that just does it for me.

MakeShift
I'm with you guys on Tele's, they just visually don't do a lot for me. 

I do think it is silly to associate different guitars with different genre's of music. However, a LP and a Marshall, the tone to me has always been the classic sound of rock. The LP has just a little more bite and a little more sustain that just does it for me.

Now I know what you guys really thought when I posted my Tele builds....
 
(bold) That says it all. A lot of people relate tones to what was used in the past. A lot aren't and any tones that a guitarist are after can be achieved on many, many different guitars.
 
Times have changed. Choices have grown big time and has opened the door for a player to get whatever it is...based on his abilities and knowledge of creating/hearing tones. Hell it can be done now in the box with a Kay guitar. I know...the tone kings will not agree but I still haven't met one that can tell you what they're hearing unless they've been told.
 
If the only way to get the sound of a Strat or LP was by using either one.........think about that. Where would PRS, Ibanez etc...be? Not to mention custom made guitars.....man what a list this would be if I continued.
There is much more to it than just tone. Much more. If one wants to know what it's like to play a Strat and what they will sound like playing one there is only one way. If one wants the sound of a Strat there are almost endless ways. Now all the players that have stated that pickups and players are the main factors of tones better be careful if they don't agree.
 
 
 
 
 
 
And talk about ugly guitars....that Music Man looks like that fast food Sonic burger sign.

spacey
Now I know what you guys really thought when I posted my Tele builds....

Yeah, we're busted.  But with all the work you put into your guitars Michael, we just wanted to be nice.
(And, yes, I'm kidding of course!  )
 
Actually, I just love to drool over look at the fine wood on your projects.

craigb
 
Actually, I just love to drool over look at the fine wood on your projects.

Ditto.
 
And one certainly doesn't need to love something to appreciate. I can appreciate Michelangelo's David even though I am no big fan of male nudity.

spacey
 
(bold) That says it all. A lot of people relate tones to what was used in the past. A lot aren't and any tones that a guitarist are after can be achieved on many, many different guitars.
 
Times have changed. Choices have grown big time and has opened the door for a player to get whatever it is...based on his abilities and knowledge of creating/hearing tones. Hell it can be done now in the box with a Kay guitar. I know...the tone kings will not agree but I still haven't met one that can tell you what they're hearing unless they've been told.
 
If the only way to get the sound of a Strat or LP was by using either one.........think about that. Where would PRS, Ibanez etc...be? Not to mention custom made guitars.....man what a list this would be if I continued.
 
There is much more to it than just tone. Much more. If one wants to know what it's like to play a Strat and what they will sound like playing one there is only one way. If one wants the sound of a Strat there are almost endless ways. Now all the players that have stated that pickups and players are the main factors of tones better be careful if they don't agree.
 

For whatever reason, I love traditional guitars. I don't think it has to be justified so long as one is not putting down the alternatives. I never liked PRS, Ibanez and most of the others all that much. But I can't say they aren't valid.
 
You could give me a PRS which sounds EXACTLY as a Les Paul, it wouldn't change a thing. I'm not inspired by that instrument. It's highly subjective obviously, but I'm making music, not trying to arrive to a mathematical understanding of guitar sound. 
 
As for sound... Right off the bat, a classic Les Paul in a Marshall will provide you with a much different starting point then a Telecaster in a Twin Reverb. 
 
Obviously, you can take that Telecaster and work your way towards a Les Paul type of sound I guess. Or you can take a Les Paul and make it sound quite like a strat. 
 
I guess it's a matter of where you want to start. For me, if you like that classic Les Paul type of sound for starters, it simply makes more sense to pick a Les Paul. If you want to play Brian Setzer and sound similar to him, a hollow body is a good place to start. Then work it to get those other sounds you may want.
 
And then obviously, there are all the alternatives, which are all as equally valid, depending on your priorities.
 
 
 

Michael,

I am saddened that you think I would feel that way. I have been fascinated by all guitars and anything guitar related since I was 10 years old. Why would I not be genuinely fascinated with the guitars that you are building. Building my own guitar is something that I would like to do myself before I leave this world.

Your craftsmanship is superb. Your threads on building are some of the ones I look forward too. I like McQue's threads on amp building as well. Why would I say something that isn't true or that I don't actually mean or feel?
I actually was going to ask in the other thread, how you route that slot for the truss rod?

I know craftsmanship when I see it. My company employes between 80 - 130 master level carpenters at a given day. We have 2 state of the art Komo CNC mills to route out the parts the carpenters assemble. The projects that we do, most people would probably recognize if I were to mention a few. Everything is high tech these days. So when a guy like yourself comes along and produces everything with his hands, I can find it fascinating on many levels. I have done quite a bit of work with wood myself and I hope to do more of it again as the kids get older and leave the nest.