I try and use the drums as both a time keeper and for beginning emotive content.
 
  If you're going to make 80's music I would look for drum kits and sounds that represent a good 80's kit. Some drum programs let you mix and match different drum sounds. I would worry more about panning, reverb and loudness of each part after I had worked out the basic song, although sometimes I'll make some tweaks as I go.
 
 If I have a good grasp of the material I am going to be making, then I'll look for a pool of loops that fit that idea. I usually work with midi loops either within the drum program or from an outside source. Midi is great because after you get closer to completion of your material you might want to omit a cymbal here and there or add a snare. With midi you can make those changes, for instance changing the velocity or adding additional percussion for emphasis.
 
 Speaking of loop pools. A lot of people never change the 120 default tempo of their song. If you're playing the melody try and determine what tempo you are playing it in and set your project tempo to that.The tempo makes a huge difference in how your midi loops will sound. In BFD( and many others) there are groupings of loops based on tempo and styles. Sometimes experimenting with a loop made for one tempo in another tempo can make the whole thing come alive.
 
 I don't usually use a synth to make my tempo track, although I have added additional supporting percussion with a keyboard. There is no longer any point in me using a percussion map of my keyboard when I can simply get what I want from my drums program. All the map does is play midi into your keyboard and your keyboard plays the sounds in it back into your software.
 
 You make the call on how long you want your song verses to be or how many choruses you have and how long they are. Load up a drum program, in the case of X3 Addictive Drums or Discrete Drums .Send an output from each track into one track in Sonar. When you load your drum program it will have a midi control track. This is the track you load whatever patterns you want onto. Mix and match, erase, edit. Do whatever you need to do. Don't worry if you added too many measures of something. Anything is changeable until you freeze those tracks.
 
 Even after you freeze those tracks you can further edit in Sonar.

Moshkiae
Hi,
 
I was thinking that if you had to follow that idea, you are calling yourself a "writer" of songs?
 
You really think you will get somewhere with that?
 
Pathetic!
 
Oh wait ... it's just what top ten ordered!

Not sure if you're addressing me with that, but assuming you are, as it's below my post; no, I'm not a song writer, I'm a writer of instrumental music.
 
'Getting somewhere' with music and 'top ten' are concepts that don't exist for me. I'm 53 years old and under no illusions (or delusions of grandeur).
 
I make music that pleases me, something I'd like to listen to. Once it reaches that stage, I'll put it out there for listening.
 
If other people like it - and some do - all well and good.

I have different approaches but since I'm not trying to write "tunes" in the sense of working with a vocalist I'm writing "exercises"...that are easy to label "instrumentals".
 
But the starting of everything or anything seems to work best when I find a drum groove that inspires me. If I can find guitar hooks that fit the groove then I have something to work with. Sometimes it just "dies" and I move on but it's the easiest way for me...loop a drum groove that I like and jam waiting for the inspiration and licks...if it doesn't happen I go to a different drum groove. To me if I can't get in the groove then it's not going to happen.
 
It's really not that much different than when I use to jam a lot with other musicians...I just didn't realize until I got to record at home that the drummer was really all I needed. Nice to have others inspire but oh well.
 
 

Sit behind keyboard or guitar see what falls out of the end of my furry paws.
Repeat until I get bored with it or something happens.

I usually try and start with a melody, the workings of the song comes later after jelling it all together in the end.
At least an idea of a song that then has to be worked on, and perhaps worked on, and perhaps worked on in the end.
I find drum loops are just that - drum loops. I rather play drums and I have, just takes a little more work. But while you are sitting there, there is music that can be played on utube and move your hands to the drum part.
 
I find it varies but a lot of times the bass part comes first perhaps, or initially, even if changed later.
I suppose it follows from the musicians I use to play with or a jam had in Am.

 
 

Rain
 
 
10: Start mixing the song.
11: Find something's wrong.
12: Find everything's wrong.
13: Self-loathing.
14: Consider writing down last will.
15: Get over oneself and just finish the darn song.
No matter what, ALWAYS save the MIDI track, clearly identify versions and write down any bit of info that seems quasi-relevant.
 

 
In my case ... a slight difference
 
15) Think, sod it and start on another song thinking I'll come back to that one and finish it some other time.
 
16) Never finish it.

paulo
 

 
In my case ... a slight difference
 
15) Think, sod it and start on another song thinking I'll come back to that one and finish it some other time.
 
16) Never finish it.

I have gazillions of those too. ;)

Wookiee
Sit behind keyboard or guitar see what falls out of the end of my furry paws.Repeat until I get bored with it or something happens.

That's me!

Most of the time I will come up with the whole song before I even start with drums. And I may even have the vocal melody somewhat worked out too.

But when it's time to put drums, my drum parts have to have the feel of what I am going for. And sometimes that's a search in itself.

What I find works best for me is just find a midi drum pattern close to what I want and edit it till it's acceptable. Can't stress enough to get the correct tempo up front. That way you can speed up or slow down as the song develops. So many times I write a song slower that what it ends up being. Speeding it up breathes life and excitement into it.

Groove Monkey and Platinum Samples has some good midi grooves with feeling. Too tracks ain't bad either. Haven't played enough with BFD stuff to make a call yet.

And God do I have songs that need to be finished??

There are a couple of missing steps for me in Rains method.
 
a) after what I deem to be a good mix, burn a disc, go to car and play through car stereo. Realize I've mucked it up so badly I don't know where to start.
b) rinse and repeat until worthless cds have taken over my studio. Spend an hour on google looking for uses for worthless cds.
 
Randy

I often do exactly as Grem, look for a pattern that is pretty close to what I want the final verse/chorus pattern to sound like. I use the midi pattern as my metronome, but never use an actual metronome. I rehearse the song many times playing with tempo until I find the tempo that feels the most natural to play too. I record takes until I feel like I am really falling into a groove with the pattern that I have chosen. Too me, this initial rhythm track grooving with the drums is the foundation for everything else that I will record, so I spend extra time trying to get a tempo and groove that feels natural to how I would play the song.

It would be soooo much easier just to be working with a live drummer and feeling out the groove together. On the occasion that I can't find any pattern at all that seems to be working, that can become real frustrating. One of these days I am going to take up Herb on his suggestion and just let Jamsticks work it out for me.

After everything else is tracked and mixed, I often go back and do a lot of tweaking to the drums. Play with randomizing velocities, making the snare or kick punch a little more. Get them to blend a little better with the bass. A little more reverb on just the ride cymbal to make it ring nicer. In my opinion, drums at the most important part of my mixes to make the song sound more realistic.