• Techniques
  • Anyone using a phase switch on guitar? (p.2)
2015/03/22 10:31:14
mettelus
Hmmm, this experiment is doomed to failure, there is not way to match the tracks accurately enough to get a good phase reversal to work (short of an actual switch, of course).
 
I tried out the EQ settings above, and they were not dramatic enough to create any real interest, so I inserted an EQ brickwall with Izotope's Alloy 2 and started driving it upwards. This had a significant effect, which was a nice start, but then I inserted GR5 and found an interesting oddity. GR5 actually put the missing fundamentals back in! After the initial "WTF" moment, I slid the Voxengo SPAN I was using before GR5 to after it, and sure enough, there they were.
 
That was enough to call off the "experiment" for me. At this point I will huck it in the "neat idea not worth the effort" bin for now.
 
2015/03/22 11:34:55
Grem
How does she play after you got it PLEC'd?
 
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And let me just say, I only have the Carvin that has a phase switch on it.
 
I do have a G&L Legacy that has a five selector switch, and I think two of those are OOP positions. Not sure. There is a volume drop, and a thinner tone, so this being my first "Strat-Type" guitar, I am not really sure. If you started from the left (neck PU only) and that would be position 1, then the positions I am talking about are 2 and 4. And I can tell you that when I play this guitar, I mostly stay in those two positions. I LOVE that sound, feel, articulation I get from these positions.
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[edit 2]
 
Oh, and nice guitar!!
 
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2015/03/22 12:41:59
bitflipper
mettelus, my idea was cloning the track, shifting the phase slightly of the clone (with a very short, < 1ms, delay) to mimick the spacing of the pickups, and then inverting it.
2015/03/22 15:10:18
tlw
Would this work?

Record using just the neck pickup (which usually has a more "full range" tonal content than the bridge).

Clone the track, then eq the clone so it's as close as possible to a bridge pickup tone. Then bounce that to a track to make the tone change permanent.

Then invert the phase on the bounced track and adjust the balance between the bouncec and original tracks and their eq as requred.
2015/03/22 15:32:55
mettelus
@Bit, your idea is actually a much more accurate representation of what the EQ was "almost" doing. Shifting a track by 1-3 samples still had a good chunk of the fundamental components in it, but from 4-6 samples they went away and left a very defined set of "stinging" harmonics. As I moved the clone 7+ samples away the fundamentals started to return. The 4-6 range actually gives a sound that is very usable, depending on application of course. (I used the bridge pickup, coil-cut at the bridge itself for this).
 
TBH, I was not expecting that result as comb filtering in phase tears up the high end first. Out of phase the harmonics became very dominant for the 4-5 sample offset. All-in-all that is a very simplistic solution that yields a usable result. Thank you for bringing that up a second time.
 
@Grem, I wrote up a quick article on the PLEKing when I had it done (sort of to document it in "cloud storage" lest I lose it in the future). I had bastardized the fret job (my first) and had been dealing for years with fret action; but because I had used jumbo frets, PLEKing was able to give me a 13"-16" compound radius with a fret action of 0.060" (low E) - 0.040" (high E) at the 24th fret. The guy who did it (Steve Weber) turned it around in less than a day for me. The post I made on this work is here if interested.
2015/03/22 15:35:40
b rock
mettelus
I wanted to ask a quick question for those who either have a guitar with a built in phase switch or modified one for such. Do you get much use from this setup? ...

 
A '73 Gibson L6-S has been one of my favorite guitars since ... 1973.  As sweet as maple syrup.  Positions #4 & #6 are out-of-phase, and those are the go-to selections for me on the six-position switch.  Here's how Bill Lawrence got around the "hollow sound" for super-funky Position #4:


 

2015/03/22 15:49:54
mettelus
I guess I should have included this earlier. The electronic work I did was my adaptation of the "Super Seven Switching" found on this site (sans the phase switch). As you can see from the pic there, I was not overly keen to put 5 more holes through the face of my guitar.
2015/03/22 15:52:35
drewfx1
b rock
Here's how Bill Lawrence got around the "hollow sound" for super-funky Position #4:


 



Interesting - that's the high pass filter idea I mentioned above.
 
And it further confirms my law that for any idea you can have today, either Frank Zappa or Bill Lawrence or somebody like that already did it many years ago. 
2015/03/23 13:50:59
Grem
Michael, (mettelus) thanks for the link to the wiring site. I found a link over there that's had me dazed for the last few hours!!
 
I love astronomy. And here is a link to what I found. I post because I know there are others here that are interested in this also.
 
http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy.html
 
Anyway, thanks again Michael.
2015/03/23 22:30:09
mettelus
Hey Grem, in all honesty, that project is really only if you enjoy such things... because of the pickups I chose, the tone variation is minimal (and could be easily compensated for with post-processing effects). I had chosen DiMarzio D-Activator pickups which are incredibly clean and high output pickups, so even putting them in parallel isn't "big" because the neck is pretty strong. Ironically, when I first wired this years ago, I left a stock (crappy) pickup in the neck and put a PAF Pro in the bridge, with only the original 3-way switch. That setup actually had significantly more tone variation since the stock pickup was very warm and muddy, and the PAF Pro was more hot and clean. The stock pickup alone sounded very acoustic because it was not overly responsive to harmonics. I think if pickups are "matched" the wiring I did is more "just because" rather than it gains much.
 
Back to the emulation part, I played with the 4-5 sample offset region and when clean this is adequate, but running it through GR5 or TH2 brings back the fundamentals, and jacks the artificial harmonics through the roof (and the associate hiss). Post-EQ helps "some," but I think ideally that would have to be re-amped with a real amp to be usable. I will back off the comb filter a bit and try it with a real amp at some point, but for now, the amp sim option (for that range at least) is a bit nasty.
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